I have an 18x and race long distance some races 30km and most of them 20km , I was told to change the seat to get proper rotation and take out the back rest, now I have changed the seat but sure find it hard on the lower stomach without the back rest, just touching a back rest slightly makes a big difference mentally,will it only take time or do you guys use a small back rest,i see the surf ski have no back rest
backband
get a minimal backband, like a Snapdragon or Seals:
http://kayakproshop.com/products/snap-dragon-adjustable-back-band-2
Very comfortable. I’ve used one for years in a long narrow Greenland replica skin-on-frame in which I sit on a piece of 1/2" ensolite foam folded in half directly on the floor of the boat and find the band gives just enough contact with my lumbar area to provide a little support when resting but without interfering with rotation when I’m on the move. I’ve put in some long days and distance in that boat and never had a tired or aching back.
Backrests…
I installed a backband on a ski thingking it would help stabilize the boat. WRONG it made it much worse. When the boat moved it would take me with it which made the boat move more and so on.
I feel the backband should just be used to keep your butt from sliding back in the seat. A small foam block between your back and the bulkhead is used by some and still should let you rotate
Lock Your Butt/Bum In Place
To be effective. Surfski paddlers use wax or pads with or without holes, on the seat. Some will even glue foam pads to the back of the cockpit behind them to achieve this effect. The purpose is to keep the glutes firing, especially the gluteus medius and maximus, which enable trunk rotation. If you’re not lock in, there’s no swivel effect. Once your butt goes, everything else goes. So experiment with some form of lower back support, maybe a seat with a slightly raised back or shorten your backrest to the top of your butt crack?
I have a back band in my QCC-700
When I am racing or wanting to go fast, I am never even against it.
The only time I might be against it is if I am lilly dipping or eating my lunch.
Jack L
18X back rest
I use an 18x Ultra and my experience is the same as Jack. Normally I’m not touching the backrest. I use it rarely on very long races to give my core a rest, for a short time, and then adjust it so I don’t touch it.
Keep in mind that torso rotation means that your butt is moving in the seat (rotating in place as if you were sitting on a turn-table), so unless the backrest moves with you, it can translate into bad chafing / reduced rotation, depending on your technique and mileage.
My longest day at this years Everglades Challenge was 93 miles. Long miles require prevention of any chafing/skin issues or you will be in misery. For butt comfort I alternated a Skwoosh pad, and one that I made from a Thermarest-Z-Lite pad.
I’m not a fan of the stock back rest. The first time I needed to lean hard against it, to raise my butt off the seat to adjust a butt pad, the mounting hardware bent.
My favorite seats for the 18x thus far are the “Bumfortable”, Redfish minicel seat, and the newer Epic seat that is patterned after a surf-ski bucket. I use a Seals backband with the Epic seat.
Greg
The bumfortable seat?
Would that work well for a expedition style skegged kayak? Enough support and contact for control in rough conditions? Been looking for a replacement seat for my Nigel Foster Shadow and it’s on the short list but is a little pricey for me without being a sure thing. Thanks
hip wedges
https://www.gurneygears.com/bumfortable-kayak-seat
Bumfortable is a very lightweight (9.1 oz) and fairly thin foam shell. Unless your kayak is so narrow that the sides of the seat press against the hull you will need to add hip wedges (between the sides of the seat and the hull) to provide support for bracing. Without this the seat would collapse when you edge/lean the kayak. You may also want to place a wedge under the seat to tune the slope of the seat pan.
I’m not playing in rock gardens with my 18X but have have rolled and braced for surf landings using the Bumfortable with no problems with seat support.
There’s a slot to run webbing through the seat back to secure forward (cockpit rim, etc) to provide more back support, if needed.
The seat has a center hump that takes pressure off the sit-bones. Some people prefer to grind the hump off depending on personal preference/fit/comfort/issues.
If you aren’t looking to shave ounces, for expedition use, I’d recommend a minicell seat such as a Redfish Minicell Seat (15.4 oz for model with side bolsters and back support). I don’t care for the back support on the Redfish model for racing (causes chafing in my case) – might be OK for touring, next time I’d just get the seat pan and install a backrest, if needed.
Greg
Thanks
I have one of the thinner gel Necky seats in there now with a homemade foam back, been slowly working with that to try and get enough support, without locking my rotation down. Need to keep making small modifications not quite there yet. The bumfortable is tempting, sat in one for a quick minute was comfortable, and seems easy to just drop in and be done. Will research the redfish seat as well.
I’d like to install an NRS Surf to Summit backrest to my surfski. I just want to try it out for resting periods between long segments of paddling. I don’t want to drill any holes - just want to attach to the side handles. That way I can remove it when I don’t want it on. I’m terrible at installing things. Can someone please tell me how to do this? I’ve attached 2 photo files. The only difference is that I didn’t receive the straps with the grommets. Thanks!.!
The photos are huge in the Preview. I hope they don’t really show up that way. I’ll be happy to delete them if so - just let me know.
(https://d3s3k13islrvw7.cloudfront.net/original/2X/7/72f029816bb098ac360993b143b73f4980f3376c.jpeg “”)
For me, the best kayak seat is made by NC Kayaks. I think they make three sizes. These seats are one piece fiberglass and have a short back which is lower than the deck. They were ergonomically designed for best paddling position and comfort. Yes it takes some time in the saddle to get used to it as it has no pad, or cushion. This might sound harsh; the seat is absolutely rigid, but the contours make it fit so well that there are no pressure spots.
There is a special benefit from a non-cushioned seat and that is that it is never wet and soggy. Even if it does get wet, a quick swipe with a towel, chamois, or even your hand and you don’t have to endure a damp posterior.
Thanks for your quick reply. The surfski seat is hard plastic, but comfortable. I just wanted to add a little rest area for my lower back. I’ve already purchased the NRS back band - just can’t figure out how to attach it!
What surfski do you paddle?
Think Zen. I love it!
Nice ski. Contact Ulli Sherer of Great Lakes Surfskis.
She’s a Think distributor and might have some ideas which will help you. You’ll find her email address in the contact section of http://www.greatlakessurfski.com/
Thanks! Will do!
@paddleit said:
I have an 18x and race long distance some races 30km and most of them 20km , I was told to change the seat to get proper rotation and take out the back rest, now I have changed the seat but sure find it hard on the lower stomach without the back rest, just touching a back rest slightly makes a big difference mentally,will it only take time or do you guys use a small back rest,i see the surf ski have no back rest
I Agree! I definitely can’t work out without the backrest, even is still the DIY!
You can have a back band but you should not be touching it while paddling or the rotation will tear the skin on your back pretty badly. One thing that may help is to try tilting your seat forward so you have the proper support on your bum to sit up straight. I am amazed at the number of seats set up to tilt you back so you have to fight with your core muscles to sit up straight and paddle all day,
Often I remove the seat and the backband and just have a foam wedge as a seat. Three inches high in the back and less than one inch high in the front.
Maybe you can try sitting in a surf ski as most of them have molded seats that help you sit up straight instead of lounge chairs that work against you.