Hi everyone!

   This will be two part question of sorts.  My Wife and I have the pleasure and privilege of having Lake Tahoe (and surrounding lakes) practically in our back yard.   We can be in the water in under and hour.  Talked about getting kayaks for years before we moved to Reno.  Now that we are here, it's a must.  We are both in our late 40s and very active.  Runners, biking, hiking, etc. we are both 5'8".  I'm 165 and she is about 135.   We will probably stick with the lakes.  No rivers or streams.  There may be a very slight off chance of taking them to Monterrey Bay someday.  However, we would like to cover distance for a nice work out, 10+ miles.  Maybe leisurely shore hug for some bird watching or whatever we want to do.  On the fence for overnight excursions.  But it could happen.  

 We were able to test drive some WS Tsunami 125s this past weekend for 3 hrs and 7+ miles..  Nice boat but a bit too roomy.  It was ok.  Although a friend of ours who went went with us who has been out WAY more than us admitted he had a hard time keeping up with us in his 8' Perception.   Day after, we went to the local shop who rented to us and sells (we are all for supporting the local businesses).  He sized us up and mentioned the Eddyline Rio 11'9".  Smaller cockpit and more agile and reasonably fast.  He said we would be even fine in a Tsunami 120 but have more fun in the Rio.  We are setting up a Demo this weekend with this boat as he definitely said, try it out.  So we are.

  With all that said.   I, personally have been eyeing up the Eddyline Samba.  Their entry touring kayak at 13'9".   So far from what I can see, it's 2' longer.  The cockpit is around the same size.  Give or take an inch.  Of course it has the added skeg.   So, if I get a Samba and she gets a Rio, would she have any difficulty?  She IS a strong paddler.  Or given the nature of Tahoe and her ever changing conditions of wind and the constant buzzing of motorboats, would we both be better off with Sambas? Does the 2' make a difference?  Sorry for the newb question. 

 Second part is added equipment.  We already purchased Stohlquist vests with nice, high backs (rental vests are nasty).  A pair of 220 carbon fiber Werner Skagits as we didn't want to skimp too much on the paddles.  Nice stand so the boats will be garage kept and Yakima Jay Lows to transport on the Subie Crosstrek.  

 What are some other "must haves" and some "nice to have" equipment to look at as we will be getting something!

Thanks a bunch!

William

Generally the larger the length to width ratio the faster the boat. Two bulkheads one fore and one aft are better. A skeg or rudder makes it easier to keep on track. Longer boat will be better with boat wakes. Accessories get a Kayak PFD cut for high back and open arms. Get training. Specifically in paddle storkes, self rescues, navigations and other things.

@Rookie said:
Absolute must haves: instruction from an ACA certified instructor. In addition to basic strokes, you need to learn how to get back into your kayak in case you capsize. For that you’ll each need a dual-chambered paddle float, bilge pump, and sponge.

I second this, though not as strong a requirement in mind for ACA (I am an ACA certified sea kayak instructor, and do like what they do and the standards they set, but also know of other-certified and non-certified people who can provide the same quality instruction. If they are ACA, it is just a way of knowing you get a certain standard, but not the only way to get it).

Turns out there is a lot about kayaking that is not intuitive. You may make it work without lessons, but lessons will make you do it better and also prepare you for events which don’t happen often.

Also, if paddling Tahoe or Monterey, you will want some sort of thermal protection, like a wet suit/paddle jacket or dry suit. Neither the lake nor the Pacific Ocean in Monterey get warm enough to allow any sort of extended time in the water that you may find should you flip. if you are always poking around very close to shore, you likely would get away with it. But longer trips like you guys are talking about likely would take you off shore, so being prepared for it would be important (could be life saving).

@wrz0170
Here’s what you wrote in a more easily readable format (couldn’t get it to quote without the yellow block showing up)

“This will be two part question of sorts. My Wife and I have the pleasure and privilege of having Lake Tahoe (and surrounding lakes) practically in our back yard. We can be in the water in under and hour. Talked about getting kayaks for years before we moved to Reno. Now that we are here, it’s a must. We are both in our late 40s and very active. Runners, biking, hiking, etc. we are both 5’8”. I’m 165 and she is about 135. We will probably stick with the lakes. No rivers or streams. There may be a very slight off chance of taking them to Monterrey Bay someday. However, we would like to cover distance for a nice work out, 10+ miles. Maybe leisurely shore hug for some bird watching or whatever we want to do. On the fence for overnight excursions. But it could happen.
" We were able to test drive some WS Tsunami 125s this past weekend for 3 hrs and 7+ miles… Nice boat but a bit too roomy. It was ok. Although a friend of ours who went went with us who has been out WAY more than us admitted he had a hard time keeping up with us in his 8’ Perception. Day after, we went to the local shop who rented to us and sells (we are all for supporting the local businesses). He sized us up and mentioned the Eddyline Rio 11’9". Smaller cockpit and more agile and reasonably fast. He said we would be even fine in a Tsunami 120 but have more fun in the Rio. We are setting up a Demo this weekend with this boat as he definitely said, try it out. So we are.
“With all that said. I, personally have been eyeing up the Eddyline Samba. Their entry touring kayak at 13’9”. So far from what I can see, it’s 2’ longer. The cockpit is around the same size. Give or take an inch. Of course it has the added skeg. So, if I get a Samba and she gets a Rio, would she have any difficulty? She IS a strong paddler. Or given the nature of Tahoe and her ever changing conditions of wind and the constant buzzing of motorboats, would we both be better off with Sambas? Does the 2’ make a difference? Sorry for the newb question.
" Second part is added equipment. We already purchased Stohlquist vests with nice, high backs (rental vests are nasty). A pair of 220 carbon fiber Werner Skagits as we didn’t want to skimp too much on the paddles. Nice stand so the boats will be garage kept and Yakima Jay Lows to transport on the Subie Crosstrek.
"What are some other “must haves” and some “nice to have” equipment to look at as we will be getting something!
"Thanks a bunch!
“William”

Yes, I think two feet definitely makes a difference. While the Rio is a pretty kayak, it’s still classified as a recreational kayak, 24" wide and has a fixed seat (all Eddylines have two sealed bulkheads, even their little 10-footer). Definitely not a boat for Monterrey Bay or overnight camping.

The Samba is a 22.5" inch wide skegged touring kayak with a sliding seat, a nice feature to adjust trim, and a well-outfitted cockpit, Lake Tahoe is not a small lake and from what I’ve read, it’s had its share of kayak/SUP accidents because of waves, wind conditions and paddlers not wearing a PFD.

I own a Samba and paddled it primarily on Lake Michigan the past two summers. It has good primary and secondary stability, is very responsive, and kept me safe more than once in some crazy conditions I didn’t have the skills to handle. While I’m now paddling a longer boat on Lake Michigan, I keep the Samba for stroke practice at the inland lake I live on. My suggestion is that you and your wife both try the Samba instead of the Rio. Use the life vests you purchased to see how they fit in the cockpit.

If they have Fathoms there for demo, why not? Although that might be longer than you want to go right now.

Absolute must haves: instruction from an ACA certified instructor. In addition to basic strokes, you need to learn how to get back into your kayak in case you capsize. For that you’ll each need a dual-chambered paddle float, bilge pump, and sponge.

Not a must have but a nice to have: an underdeck bag. Handy place to stash, your water bottle, sun block, snacks, and stuff you don’t want to have on your deck or stuffed in your PFD pockets. The bilge pump easily fits in the space on top of the bag.
https://northwater.com/products/underdeck-bag

Happy hunting and have a wonderful journey.

I agree, if you have coastal Pacific touring and overnight trips and distance paddling in your sights, you should be looking at longer boats, nothing under 13’. The Rio is really too small for that. In fact, for coastal use a 15’ kayak is more reasonable for people your size. I’m 5’ 5", 150 pounds, and I use 14’, 15’ and 18’ kayaks for most purposes, all 22" or less in beam. Shorter boats just feel too slow to me.

And don’t handicap your spouse by getting her a shorter and wider boat. Why should she have to work harder to keep up with you? Get matching boats.

I too would recommend longer boats. You will have waves, wind, and lots of wake on Tahoe, especially if you move further from shore. The water is cold, as previously stated, so immersion protection is a must. Weather is capricious in the Sierras, especially in spring and fall, but paddling during those times offer rewards that are well worth the effort. Thus, you should be prepared for conditions that change in a hurry. A longer boat will give you that extra tracking ability and control that is missing from the shorter recreational boats. Tahoe is more of an inland sea than it is a lake, so don’t take it for granted. It can be a very challenging paddle.

Rather than specify what boats to use, I would recommend that you take a variety of them out (demo days, if they are offered by local outfitters are ideal for this). Don’t rush to buy until you have some experience with different hulls and what you do/don’t like about them. Take your time and make a better choice up front and you will enjoy paddling more.

I like Current Designs boats, like the Solstice quite a bit (though they are pricy). If you have woodworking skills, building a Pygmy, Guillemot, or other kit boat may also appeal. Some of the wooden/fiberglass designs are really gorgeous, solid, and handle exceptionally well. I’ve paddled a couple of pygmy boats and must admit to having a bit of lust there.

Rick

You want sea kayaks given the info above. Faster than rec boats overall and more capable of future growth for you two as paddlers.

I didn’t see this above - get the lightest weight decent paddles you can afford. You will never regret it.

Another advocate for getting longer kayaks, say 15 to 16 ft, and not wide ones. With your stated active interests, the short wide boats will soon seem limiting. Like many other Pnetters, my first kayak was a rec kayak, 13 ft long and 26" beam. I sold it after a year.

The longer narrower kayaks will reward your efforts and improving skills with more speed, and they will be easier to edge. Edging is a BIG DEAL for kayaking. Given that your main venue is a large mountain lake with potential for plenty of wind, and that you are already thinking of west coast trips, you might as well start with a kayak that better suits improving skills and endurance. You did say “10+ miles workout”.

Also, I assume Tahoe gets a lot of lake lice. Longer kayaks will be less tossed about by idiots deliberately buzzing around you to churn up multidirectional wakes.

Your wife does not need a wider boat than you. She weighs 30 lbs less and most likely has the female proportions that make women less likely to capsize than a man. If anything, she needs a narrower boat than you do.

Both of you should demo some sea kayaks before pulling the trigger, The best way to start would be taking lessons with a good instructor who has sea kayaks you can borrow or rent for the lessons. Sometimes REI or other stores have kayak demo days, too, although I think those are being overtaken by SUP demo days.

I strongly suggest that you go to nckayaks.com and check out the 15’-8" models that they build. These boats are very fast, stable and very seaworthy. They just happen to be having a sale right now.

The price might be more than you had in mind, but these are lifetime boats that will literally last a lifetime and you will not quickly grow tired of–which is almost a guarantee with buying beginner boats. In the long run, this would be the most cost effective boat purchase you could make.

@Peter-CA said:

@Rookie said:
Absolute must haves: instruction from an ACA certified instructor. In addition to basic strokes, you need to learn how to get back into your kayak in case you capsize. For that you’ll each need a dual-chambered paddle float, bilge pump, and sponge.

I second this, though not as strong a requirement in mind for ACA (I am an ACA certified sea kayak instructor, and do like what they do and the standards they set, but also know of other-certified and non-certified people who can provide the same quality instruction. If they are ACA, it is just a way of knowing you get a certain standard, but not the only way to get it).

Very true. There are some fabulous instructors who haven’t jumped through the ACA/BCU hoops for certification. Problem is finding them when just starting out. And when you do find one, living close enough to arrange instruction.

I have deep respect for all instructors who care about their profession as it has to be a challenge since they’re dealing with such a variety of body type, physical ability and fitness, kayaks, personalities, and even paddles. It can’t be easy.

Thanks so far for the great suggestions and pointers! Very much appreciated. Thankfully, we are not in a great hurry. Taking class(es) is without question. We’ve already discussed it would benefit us not only in the safety factor in learning what to do but the enjoyment factor as well. We plan on scheduling very shortly after our purchase.

The west coast trips is a BIG if. If at all. Same with overnight trips. However, longer day trips, some work outs is in the plan. Longer than 3hrs day trips. Certainly _not_talking about going across the lake or anything crazy.

One concern we have with the longer boats that many face is space. In the garage, we have room for about 14’ +- a few inches. We thought about putting them outside but the Nevada sun is unforgiving in the Summer time. Every single day has been 90 plus with some 100s thrown in. So some type of large tarp with UV protection would be needed. In Winter, probably sit under a blanket of snow at times and can get into the teens and 20s. If not colder at times. So if it all possible, garage kept is the preference. Firm believers of taking care of our stuff so it takes care of us.

There in lays the dilemma of finding the happy compromise. Something that is safe in windier conditions, relatively stable, reasonably quick and we can grow our skills in for years to come. Under 50lbs and meets some of the space requirements. Stave off the upgradeitis. Asking the for the world I guess

Do many buy online, unseen and not Demo?

Again, thanks so much. Being very new to something is trying and most likely for you veterans out ther who deal with these same questions every day on the forum.

William

What you think of as stable as a beginner is almost never what fits a boat that will help you grow your skills. Hence story after story from folks here about going thru at least a boat or two to get to the one that really serves their needs. It is a method that works but awkwardly at best.
I am honestly not sure if keeping them in a garage is a better idea than outside at that heat, as long as they are covered, unless the garage is air conditioned? You could for ex. get systems to mount them on the outer wall and keep them covered. Agreed that sun is an issue, just unsure whether inside or outside makes a diff in terms of temperatures. Outside under cover in the winter is fine, just keep them off the ground.

For many years we stored our kayaks in an unheated, uninsulated shed. The important thing is to cover for protection from UV exposure, and to keep cockpits sealed up from creepy-crawlies or mice or whatever vermin might rove in your area. The temperature extremes of CO (probably similar to Reno’s) did not harm any of the kayaks.

After that house, we kept them garaged (unheated), because I made sure we had ample room for long boats!

I would look at boats that are close to max that fit in your garage, so in the 14’ range. Or keep them under a cover to protect from sun.

A challenge you will find is keeping under the 50 pound you listed, even if we went shorter. You would be looking at composite boats (or wood or skin on frame, both kind of specialty items, so not what I would suggest at first). Composite boats are expensive - usually $3k and up.

One 14’ options you could consider is the Dagger Alchemy (small for your wife, either small or large for you). if you find your garage is a bit longer, the Dagger Stratos (at 14.5’) and Valley Gemini RM (at 15’) both become options (your wife in particular may like the Gemini - very popular for smaller women). None of these meet your 50 pound, but all are only a few pounds over. All are plastic, so available for between $1200 and $1800 new (less used).

Would not recommend getting anything without test paddling. I have only bought one boat without test paddling, as I got it used at a great discount. Found I didn’t like it, so sold it soon after.

@wrz0170 said:
Do many buy online, unseen and not Demo?

I’ve never come across any who did on this forum or others. To the contrary, the advice is always to demo as many kayaks as you can. The longer you can paddle the demo the better, because a boat might feel comfy for 20 minutes but not so comfy after an hour. Here’s a good article on the topic: https://paddling.com/learn/test-driving-a-kayak/

I keep my Samba stashed hull up on a dock in the summer, covered with Sunbrella fabric. I bought 15 feet, machine zig-zagged the ends and use bungee cords to keep it on. Also use 303, a UV protectant, on it regularly. While it is in the sun, our temps are much cooler than yours (82F is considered hot) and always drop in the evening. If your garage has eaves, they provide cover for boats in slings or brackets on a wall. But security is always something to consider no matter where you live. My boat on the beach is locked to the dock with a thick chain and heavy duty padlock, as is the boat I keep on my back porch. The U-bolts on the bow and stern makes locking them up easy (and very secure for bow/stern tie-downs).

In the winter they’re stored at our community pool which installed slings on a back wall and charges $20 per boat for winter storage. Heated and secured area. Good for the boats and taxpayers as that wall doesn’t earn them any money without the kayaks.

I wholeheartedly agree with your principle of taking good care of your stuff so it takes good care of you.

I bought mine (Pilgrim Expedition) without having demo’ed it because there were none in the US to demo at that time. However, I had a decent idea of what it would paddle like because I had paddled the shorter Pilgrim fairly intensively over a few days. Beam and coaming height were identical, paddler fit in the boat was identical, same design but another 15" longer.

But I would not recommend a novice buying without at least sitting in the kayak, and preferably demoing it. And not for only 5 minutes.

" Do many buy online, unseen and not Demo?"
I know some that did that. But often there are problems with shipping, damage, delays, not what they wanted and hidden price. I bought my first kayak without a demo, $250. But it was a calculated risk and I had a lot of boat experience. I bought another kit boat had the box in my garage and then went to the demo, but it worked out cause I knew about the thing before.

The real thing is without the demo, where’s the fun in that?

You might be referring to my suggestion about the NC Kayaks as to buying without a demo. First, I can assure you that these boats are going to do exactly as the manufacture states. Nevada isn’t that far away from Washington and if you could possibly take a little summer vacation up here, you can arrange a demo and save the shipping–take them home with you. At the very least, I would suggest that you give Doug a call at 1-888-441-8582, or 253-476-8582.

The only thing I can say is that if you actually see these boats, you’re going to want one, (or two). I would say that to paddle one is to seal the deal, but I will caution that beginning paddlers are not likely to be instantly taken by any boat of this caliber, because it takes a little while before you can appreciate its capabilities. However, even a novice will be impressed by the stability, comfort and speed.

Most folks don’t start out with a top of the line composite boat, but will eventually get there if they like the sport and from my own experience, you’re much more likely to get hooked on it by experiencing a truly great boat.

@pikabike said:
I bought mine (Pilgrim Expedition) without having demo’ed it because there were none in the US to demo at that time. However, I had a decent idea of what it would paddle like because I had paddled the shorter Pilgrim fairly intensively over a few days. Beam and coaming height were identical, paddler fit in the boat was identical, same design but another 15" longer.

But I would not recommend a novice buying without at least sitting in the kayak, and preferably demoing it. And not for only 5 minutes.

Not to hijack this thread, but how do you like your Pilgrim? I was told I’d best fit into a Pilgrim or a Rumour (as if I’d ever find either up here…)

Something is wrong with Pnet.

See my next post.