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Wow: "Tariffs Set to Hit Paddlesports Hard"

In today's Paddle News: "Tariffs Set to Hit Paddlesports Hard." Is paddling.com now taking a stance on political issues? Or allowing people to submit political articles for publication? I agree with the writer's political position in this case, but this should have been called an editorial rather than placing it on the "Learn" page. It clearly represents the view of a stakeholder. The author's name---John Hoge, VP of Sea Eagle---should be posted at the top of the page, not the end, so we know who's writing it and can read it accordingly. I have no objection to such articles if they're called what they are, editorials.

Where do I sign up to submit a political editorial related to paddling? My pitch: If the present administration isn't removed soon, you won't have clean, protected waters to paddle in and you won't enjoy paddling when the temperature is over 100 degrees from May through October and smoke from massive fires blankets your state. I hope John Hoge is doing what he can to fight the battle on those fronts as well---it's not all, or even mostly, about how much things cost! The larger questions are about the planet.

Also, is paddling really a middle-class thing, as Hoge states? ("Paddlesports have long been a way for the middle class to enjoy the outdoors on a reasonable budget.") Ouch. That's a risky statement. It's striking that in recent years the political discussion has been around the middle class and the wealthy. Low-income people don't really exist anymore. They have no place in debates like tariffs and climate change.

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Comments

  • Lots of assumptions in the article and it certainly was nothing more than op-ed,. Now for a little levity the Related Articles were about animal attacks on kayakers..!
    Now if only the tariffs would get the unsafe boats off the Walmart aisles... That is where the middle class comes in... Price rules.

    I wonder the real effect on the market. Some of us are not in the market for boats very often.. Of course new paddlers find themselves in a different situation

  • We don't need, or I should say I don't want any political posts here, which clearly yours is.
    I come here to learn, get advice and give advice on PADDLING Not politics

  • Yeah I think there is a forum for bickering. Spare us the political ruminations.

  • @magooch said:
    Yeah I think there is a forum for bickering. Spare us the political ruminations.

    Yes, much more appropriate at either of these spinoffs:

    http://bickerandbanter.freeforums.net/forum

    http://bnbalumnilounge.freeforums.net

  • @JackL said:
    We don't need, or I should say I don't want any political posts here, which clearly yours is.
    I come here to learn, get advice and give advice on PADDLING Not politics

    I agree.

  • edited September 12

    Interested in paddling; NOT politics.
    Ease on down the road; plenty of other sites to fulfill your political needs.
    This is paddling.net, NOT politics.net.

    BOB

  • @JackL said:
    We don't need, or I should say I don't want any political posts here, which clearly yours is.
    I come here to learn, get advice and give advice on PADDLING Not politics

    Are you saying that Paddle News can send us political op eds but we can't comment on them in a forum? That's pretty bizarre. If a topic is deemed appropriate for Paddle News I'd say it's appropriate for the forum, since both come from the same source. I assume you read Paddle News to learn as well? So how do you feel about being sent a political op ed? "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." Meaning, if someone sends me a political statement, I'm going to reply in that person's forum.

  • @magooch said:
    Yeah I think there is a forum for bickering. Spare us the political ruminations.

    Clearly you miss the point. We received exactly that in our mailboxes this morning: political ruminations.

  • I think, moreover, that advocacy is entirely appropriate for members of an organization that supports a particular activity, like paddling, especially if there are conditions that threaten that activity. The op ed writer, John Hoge, writes at length about a condition that he feels threatens the paddling industry. The condition---tariffs---is entirely political in nature. I support his effort to bring the issue to our attention. There are other issues that are an even bigger threat to paddling.

  • @thebob.com said:
    Interested in paddling; NOT politics.
    Ease on down the road; plenty of other sites to fulfill your political needs.
    This is paddling.net, NOT politics.net.

    BOB

    Maybe you didn't read your Paddle News this morning, or maybe you're not a subscriber?

  • edited September 12

    yep it was in my inbox too.. Unfortunately paddling in the future does depend on political decisions

    Please read the entire post before slaying the messenger.

  • No Paddle bird, I don't get paddle news.
    If that is the same one that the ACA used to put out ,I gave it up years go, and one of the reasons was what I stated above.
    This is the last comment from me on this subject

  • We tend to try to resurrect B and B which is gone for a reason.

  • Paddling news comes from this website
    Complain to the site admins

  • Interesting, I just read the article and came back to say the same.

    It seems I got the article but didn't read it. Perhaps because the topic, that tariffs on products from China affect the price of products from China, was covered in the headline.

    The site administrator owns the site. I should mention that it is awfully rare for someone to complain about what gets posted in News on a Board. So it seems that people are generally OK with his decisions. I am personally happy to leave it to his choice.

  • If my complete product line was imported and sold through big box stores I might be upset too.

  • My boats were made a mile fromy house.

  • @JackL said:
    No Paddle bird, I don't get paddle news.
    If that is the same one that the ACA used to put out ,I gave it up years go, and one of the reasons was what I stated above.
    This is the last comment from me on this subject

    Paddle News is the newsletter mailed by the owner of THIS SITE to subscribers. See, you missed that part. YOUR site owner sent out a political op ed to subscribers today. I'm commenting on a newsletter sent to me by THIS SITE. I'm not just pulling a random political topic out of the air. Please read more carefully before you start judging.

  • That’s what we’ve all been saying. You too
    Let’s go paddling. A few rolls ought to smooth our feathers

  • @Celia said:
    The site administrator owns the site. I should mention that it is awfully rare for someone to complain about what gets posted in News on a Board. So it seems that people are generally OK with his decisions. I am personally happy to leave it to his choice.

    No real complaint from me, but I think op eds should be identified as editorials. I AGREE with the writer's position on tariffs, I SUPPORT the publication of his article, and I support discussing items published in Paddle News in this forum.

    The forum rules read, "An opportunity for general discussion and a place to learn more about fellow paddlers. Discuss whatever it is that floats your boat. No real guidelines, just be civil." If some want to discuss scupper plugs that's fine. I'm also interested in larger issues that impact the entire sport of paddling. It appears the site owner shares an interest in larger issues, like the political issue of tariffs. Hence he decided to publish a political op ed.

    I would like to see a well-informed op ed on the impact of climate change on paddling: on paddler behaviors (when, where, and how often they paddle; what they contribute to the economy; how their activities have changed in recent years) and on the economy (sales of paddling products; related services like guides, restaurants, and lodging; events). My own town derives revenue from paddlers but this summer paddlers were impacted by extreme heat, humidity, and drought. Personally I skipped more than two months of paddling this year, made no attempt all summer. This is a great loss of quality of life.

    There is no bicker and banter here, only an invitation to discuss larger important issues that impact us all.

  • Nothing is safe from the delusional chants of the of political bots and shills from any party or organization. It has become an epidemic on forums and message boards. We must be strong.

  • There is a difference between "delusional chants of the of political bots and shills from any party or organization" and informing people about policy decisions by their elected representatives that directly or indirectly affect their livelihoods and/or recreational interests.

    I've belonged for 46 years to a local outdoor club that has raised hundred of thousands of dollars and contributed thousands of hours of volunteer effort (including pressuring government officials) for conservation and access issues that affect the wilderness places that we love. We have, in partnership with similar groups, had some real impact in blocking commercial development of some pristine areas (like our lobbying efforts that blocked the building of a casino hotel complex on a pristine lake in central NY state). And we have actively fought access restrictions in recreational areas and mining leases in sensitive environmental niches.

    We all need to be aware that who we vote for eventually will affect our quality of life. If we don't stay aware of how political actions could deprive us the things we love to do and get involved in making sure that does not happen, who is going to do it for us? Saying "I don't want to hear about that stuff" is sticking your head in the sand.

  • Here is the article in question, for those that don"t get the email from paddling.com
    https://paddling.com/learn/tariffs-set-to-hit-paddlesports-hard

  • I have no control over what the site administration does or does not post.
    My position remains the same. I have NO interest in politics.

    I resent the implication (veiled put down) that I am just sticking my head in the sand, if I do not agree, or agree to disagree with somebody else's personal or political agenda.

    I am well educated, and have common sense enough to make an informed decision for myself. If someone does not like my decision; that would be their problem, not mine.

    BOB

  • edited September 13

    This is slightly dated, but still applies today.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/china/trade.html

  • @willowleaf said:
    We all need to be aware that who we vote for eventually will affect our quality of life. If we don't stay aware of how political actions could deprive us the things we love to do and get involved in making sure that does not happen, who is going to do it for us? Saying "I don't want to hear about that stuff" is sticking your head in the sand.

    Very well stated! Quality of life has already been impacted, possibly to the point of no return. A recent, exhaustively investigated, article in the New York Times traced the history blow by blow of exactly how we managed to miss so many opportunities to do something about climate change since the 1970s. For me personally, quality of life now depends entirely on an air conditioner. Contemplating life without paddling (due to whatever cause---loss of protected lands, access closures, climate change) makes my heart sink.

  • edited September 13

    While I may not agree with one side, or the other on certain issues, it's when it turns political that it all goes in the dumper. There is one party that describes the other as being deplorable. Those of the other persuasion think the former are despicable, stupid and insane. Neither side is intetested in the others opinlons and that is just the way it is.

    When I go paddling, I don't care and don't want to know which side a fellow paddler favors. Unless they try to unload their insanity on me.

  • @thebob.com said:
    I have NO interest in politics.
    I resent the implication (veiled put down) that I am just sticking my head in the sand . . .

    The solution for you seems exquisitely simple: skip any threads that don't interest you. But to state, "I have NO interest in politics" sure hints at sticking your head in the sand. I'm not okay with other people doing the hard work of standing up for my rights or fixing problems that impact me. We owe a debt of gratitude to people like Willowleaf who do more than just paddle, ON OUR BEHALF. The last election was decided by people who didn't vote.

    If you meant to say, "I have no interest in politics on this website" my answer is similar. Skip what doesn't interest you, but remember that politics, the environment, and paddling are very intricately connected. You can't have one without the other, and SOMEONE needs to be interested and willing to act. You're not interested in political discussion and action? Fine, but don't think you can chase off those who are. They're a tough group. Some of them didn't spend years fight against things like the Vietnam War, air and water pollution, and civil rights to be bullied when we need them the most. "Ease on down the road?" I think not.

    Now that I think about it, this website needs a Paddling Political Advocay forum. The site took a strong commercial turn a couple of years ago. The article by the vice president of Sea Eagle shows just how tight the connection is between commerce and politics.

  • With such a forum then those that are interested could participate and those that don't wish could easily skip it, For example I don't fish and I don't visit the fishing forum..
    I think that whether you find it distasteful or wish to engage politics are a part of preserving ( or not) the outdoors and paddling opportunites; not to mention clean water.

  • Simple solution... Buy American Made

  • A few things that do and would keep me from paddling (and spending money on all things related to paddling):

    (1) Heat and humidity
    (2) Dirty water
    (3) Poor access roads
    (4) Lack of a decent launch
    (5) Private property all around a lake
    (6) Public land closed to the public (yes, that exists)
    (7) Low river level due to drought
    (8) Lack of camping opportunities due to stingy management of public lands
    (9) Bacteria, slime, invasive plants, invasive animals caused by excessively warm water
    (10) Unpleasant swimming due to warm water
    (11) Deforestation along waterways, which removes shade
    (12) Speedboat law breakers
    (13) Overcrowding of ponds and lakes by paddlers due to limited access to places to paddle
    (14) Heavy smoke from forest fires

    The majority of those concerns are political in one way or another and can only be solved if enough people care about them. Sadly, sometimes we only start to care when it's too late to do anything about it, which will make discussions about things like which kayak should I buy and which paddle is better, moot.

    That's not an exhaustive list. For example, recreation itself becomes moot if most of the population is struggling to survive at an elemental level due to income disparity. That could be what led the VP of Sea Eagle to associate paddling with the middle class.

  • @grayhawk said:
    Simple solution... Buy American Made

    When ever I can if it's available.

  • Again, in what way is pointing out that the prospective tariffs will likely impact the kayak gear markets "political"? The tariff policies are a reality, not an "opinion", and they have predictable consequences that people ought to think hard about. I've protested objectionable policies from both Republican and Democratic administrations and Congresses over my lifetime -- being concerned about how specific actions by the government can impact you and your community is not "political" or "partisan", it is your responsibility as a citizen. It is very narrow-minded to accuse someone of being "partisan" because they object to certain legislation. People are not objecting to the tariffs because they "think the other side is deplorable" but because the tariffs are causing a domino effect of economic grief.

    [I will make one "political" observation, that it was the Republicans during Obama's tenure who turned legislation whole hog into a political agenda, blocking anything he initiated or supported out of spite because HE wanted it even if it was a good idea (and even one they themselves wanted, like affordable health care.) We can't afford either partisan spitefulness or willful ignorance any more in effectively managing the country. Stop calling everything "political" and recognize the reality of what is being done or un-done (by any "side") and question it, no matter who is pushing it.]

    This morning the news radio show I was listening to was interviewing farmers at an agricultural show in North Dakota who are currently facing a 20% drop in the value of their recent harvests of soybeans, corn and wheat directly due to losing their main buyer, China, due to that nation's response to the tariffs the new administration is imposing. One farmer, who admitted he had voted for Trump, said he is now facing a loss of nearly $200,000 and debating whether he should put his crop in storage and hope the tariffs "go away". Like any other policy, the tariffs and trade treaties are not going to magically change unless there is backlash or input from citizens.

    I guess I get more exercised about this than a lot of people because I have been an activist most of my life (attended my first anti war and civil rights protests when I was in Junior High more than half a century ago). I volunteer as a poll worker and am dismayed at the number of voters who either show up completely uninformed about what the candidates they are voting for represent or plan to do, as well as those who simply don't bother to vote who say "politics don't interest me and what does it matter if I vote anyway?" It freaking DOES matter that you vote and that you make sure that you have a pretty good idea what the people you vote in plan to do that will effect your quality of life and that of everyone else. And it DOES matter that citizens stay informed and reach out to their congressional representatives to express pro or con opinions about legislation and national policies after they are elected.

    As was said, if you don't care for a topic, simply don't click on that thread. If you do so just so that you can whine that the topic offends you, you're the one abusing the forums, not the thread originators. I am fine with having articles included on the site that relate to such topics. That doesn't mean I subscribe to what is presented without looking deeper into the subject from other sources, but with the growing lack of publications that cover wilderness recreation, there are fewer sources for such background information these days and I am glad when I do see pertinent articles, even industry opinion pieces, that alert me to potential issues that affect the sports I love.

  • @willowleaf said:
    We can't afford either partisan spitefulness or willful ignorance any more in effectively managing the country.

    Willful ignorance is certainly part of the problem: failing to gather facts, insisting on ignoring inconvenient facts, molding them to one's preconceived opinion, pretending that falsehoods are facts, ignoring the expertise of learned people who have no political agenda but only seek to save the planet. Another part is prioritizing only current economic benefits, which go to a tiny percentage of the population, over long-term priorities like the health of the planet and overall well-being of all people. "Me first" and "right now" thinking will turn out to be suicidal in the long run. Willful ignorance is what facilitates that thinking, modeled from the top down by charismatic leaders who convince uninformed voters that they have their interests at heart when in truth nothing matters to these cynical leaders but their own power and wealth. The North Dakota farmers are now learning what happens when people think only in such self-serving terms rather than in terms of how we're all in this together, across this country and across the world.

    For anyone who witnessed the incredible string of liberation movements that swept around the world since the 1960s, the present regression to an earlier, less evolved form of society is disheartening. This is seen in countries like Poland and Hungary that fought hard for democracy and freedom but are now retreating from democracy. The US was founded on this quest for freedom (inspired by the French Revolution), but somehow we willingly handed power to a demagogue and we aren't demanding accountability from a mute Congress as our elected leaders sit and plan how to protect their own positions rather than stopping the debacle.

    All the brouhaha seems like one huge distraction to draw our attention away from the fact that our planet is burning up. Do tariffs on kayaks and canoes even matter if our fate is that 100 years from we'll be living underground like desert reptiles to escape the heat? If you love paddling then you love the planet and you have a stake in protecting it. How? By leading with facts, through goodwill discussions of issues rather than censoring people who speak up, by voting, and through direct political action, which is our birthright in this country.

    P.S. The word "politics" isn't a dirty word, you know. In its origin it refers to the citizenry.

  • Good grief!

  • edited September 14

    Getting flags now on this discussion, likely due to its not laying down. It is not the direction but people are really, really indicating they dislike going thru political dialogue on this Board.

    @Waterbird, would you like to call this one done here and formulate a proposal for the administrator? I suspect that would resolve the issues.

  • What ex

    @Celia said:
    Getting flags now on this discussion, likely due to its not laying down. It is not the direction but people are really, really indicating they dislike going thru political dialogue on this Board.

    @Waterbird, would you like to call this one done here and formulate a proposal for the administrator? I suspect that would resolve the issues.

    I'm sure this thread will die a natural death when people lose interest in it and have nothing more to add. Thank you for acknowledging that this has been a dialogue. That was my aim. Dialogue is a good thing.

  • Well, this certainly sparked a lot of interest and debate!

    While I know that some people view the article as politically motivated, it is not. The primary purpose of the article was to inform the public of how the tariff changes will affect paddlesports. Some say the new tariffs are good for the US economy in the long term, others say they will create substantial damage to the economy. Regardless of your opinion, however, the tariffs appear to be coming and they will affect paddlesports.

    The idea for this post came from a recent conversation I had with John from Sea Eagle while at the industry tradeshow. I was unaware of paddlesports items being added to the tariffs so it simply seemed like good information for all of you to know as well.

    Even many goods that are "Made in America" will be affected by the tariffs as many of the parts used in production are made offshore plus there are supply issues for aluminum from other tariffs.

    One exercise that my high-school English teacher loved to have his students perform was to first write a persuasive essay on a topic we are very passionate about and then write a second paper passionately defending the opposite position.

    So here is my challenge to you:
    1. If you have already posted a comment on this thread, try posting a new thread that supports the completely opposite position.
    2. For any rebuttal you make to another's post, find two points on which you agree with that person, point those out first and then move on to one area where you don't agree.

    Like @WaterBird said, the point of the topic and the message boards is for dialogue to occur.

    Of course, if things don't settle down, I will just need to close this post but I think we are all better than that.

  • Thanks, Brian, appreciate your tolerance.

    Re-reading the exchanges, it appears the only real "flies in the ointment" were from a few folks who weighed in simply to complain about the topic being discussed at all. I would not click on strings that discuss surf skis or outfitting fishing kayaks (since I have zero interest in either) and then complain that they are tedious to me. So I don't get why some people feel they have to butt in on subjects that don't concern them.

    Perhaps the forums could use a new category: Environment, Regulation and Legal News for sharing such paddling-related information and discussions. Those who prefer to stay blissfully unaware of potential threats to our recreational options could thus avoid "contamination" of their peace of mind while those of us who stay actively concerned about these issues could keep abreast of them.

  • Good suggestion, Willowleaf.

    Political decisions’ effects are rippling all the way down in many ways. In my home area, it has become more important than ever to vote in the primaries, attend LOCAL candidate forums, and try to stay abreast of impending changes. Some of the local turbulence was obviously “inspired” by the present POTUS’s behavior.

    Sticking my head in the sand (water) only allows certain people to get away with things that should be questioned at the very least.

  • The article may not have been politically motivated, but the topic of tariffs is undeniably political, with divisions along party lines. Again, I don't object at all to publishing the article and I don't think we should shy away from using the word "politics," which is a term that describes a participatory democracy.

    Here's my essay supporting the opposite point of view of mine:


    We should really leave politicking to politicians. Nothing we say can influence them anyway. I voted once in a presidential election and it had no impact whatsoever so I'm not getting out of bed for that next time. I'm concerned about unsupported statements about climate change. WHERE IS THE PROOF OF THAT? If you can't provide the proof, it doesn't exist. You claim that 97% of scientists state that climate change exists and that it's caused by human activity. FAKE NEWS, people, FAKE NEWS, just trying to make the president look bad. You ain't seen heat till you've lived in Phoenix, so just toughen up, wussies. You do not need clean water to paddle. Is your kayak that delicate? I'm xx years old. By the time the REAL doodoo hits the fan I'm going to be long gone, so what do I care about the environment? I totally agree with keeping this forum clean of politics, which is TOTALLY unrelated to paddling, so you bleeding-heart liberals and tree huggers can just spare me the political ruminations, stop the delusional rants, and ease on down the road, you bots and shills. Not happy? Complain to Brian. Buy American! Make America Great Again! We're the only country that really counts. Only traitors buy kayaks made in China. I do not give a rat's XXX about the Chinese. This is the last comment from me on this subject. P.S. I am well educated so don't tell me what to think. Good grief!


    That was fun. I feel more empathy now for my cohorts on the other side. What's the next assignment?

  • That was fun. I feel more empathy now for my cohorts on the other side. What's the next assignment?

    Go Away...

  • OK - too much. While I don't end up agreeing, there are reasonable arguments for the points of view held by many who support tariffs. They are not all hysterical fools, just people who have come to that point of view..

    Waterbird, IMO your response is just an assembly of easy cliches which show tremendous disrespect to individuals. No it is not fun. It is abusive.

    Congratulations on trying Brian, but...

  • With China on the move militarily I try not to help fund them if possible. Tired of USA protecting the world while they screw the USA on trade. We pay the price in money, blood, and deficits. Jobs here pay for the US defense.

  • China's massive purchases of US agriculture products have essentially enabled our farmers to stay in business and for us to have reasonable food prices. We are inextricably bound to global markets and there is no way that economic isolationism can help us domestically.

    Besides China, the administration is slapping tariffs on Canada, our largest customer for US goods. And we are cutting off our own noses to spite our faces by causing raw materials and components that our manufacturers need to either be unobtainable or overpriced.

    Tariffs have NEVER worked to improve the US bottom line, EVER. We have a government right now that refuses to consult history or economic experts and pursues unworkable fantasies without considering the real outcomes.

  • edited September 15

    Tarriffs are working already. Better deal with Mexico and EU along with Japan. They have robbed the USA for years by keeping US products out. If you believe there's free trade out there I was surfing that 83' wave off NC.

    China wants to drop their 25% tarriffs on cars now because they are getting ready to ship cars to the he USA now.

  • edited September 15

    How have the experts done with trade the last 60+ years? How have the experts done with China's interlectural theft? Japan was said by the head of the WTO to be the most closed market in the industrialized world.

  • @willowleaf said:
    China's massive purchases of US agriculture products have essentially enabled our farmers to stay in business and for us to have reasonable food prices. We are inextricably bound to global markets and there is no way that economic isolationism can help us domestically.

    Besides China, the administration is slapping tariffs on Canada, our largest customer for US goods. And we are cutting off our own noses to spite our faces by causing raw materials and components that our manufacturers need to either be unobtainable or overpriced.

    Tariffs have NEVER worked to improve the US bottom line, EVER. We have a government right now that refuses to consult history or economic experts and pursues unworkable fantasies without considering the real outcomes.

    Add to this cranberries in Massachusetts and lobsters in Maine. Who knew the Chinese liked lobsters so much? Well now we know. Some people favor isolationism because they think they have to protect themselves from other countries and that doing so will improve their lot in life. Then too late they realize how much they already depended on the so-called enemy country. "Too late" because China is already taking its business elsewhere.

    "We are inextricably bound to global markets." Absolutely true and no amount of xenophobia and false nationalism will change that.

  • @Celia said:
    OK - too much. While I don't end up agreeing, there are reasonable arguments for the points of view held by many who support tariffs. They are not all hysterical fools, just people who have come to that point of view..

    Waterbird, IMO your response is just an assembly of easy cliches which show tremendous disrespect to individuals. No it is not fun. It is abusive.

    There's a famous double standard at work here, akin to the one that Serena Williams pointed out last week. You seem all too ready to overlook aggressive insults from male posters, but slam women for standing up for themselves. That's tiresome. Half of my post was taken directly from insults aimed at me. **Times have changed, you know. ** There's an awful lot that women used to not respond to because they knew it would just invite more abuse from men who knew they could get away with it. I think that's just about finished. This revolution in what women will no longer tolerate has taken place even during the lifespan of this forum. You know what's not fun? Immature men with the brains of an amoeba. I'm done with that. By the end of this thread they're going to realize that they've been outdone by smart women. They haven't run me off in the 10 years or so that I've been here and it's not going to happen. Women censoring other women, though? That's sad. I'm not the right target for that, Celia.

  • @PaddleDog52 said:
    How have the experts done with China's interlectural theft?

    Thank you. You just gave me a weedless high.

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