Deliberate capsize in surf

I’ve seen this recommended as a way to stop if you’re out of control and hurtling, for example, towards some potential victims. I also recently saw it suggested as a way to get in and out of the surf if a breaking wave that you don’t think you can punch through or let harmlessly pass is approaching. I’m wondering if this needs to be done at a particular orientation to the wave (i.e., perpendicular vs parallel) to avoid making matters worse?

Pretty much everything you do with surf you want to be perpendicular to the wave. But the wave has other ideas, and is generally trying to make you parallel to the wave.

On the getting out - if you think the wave will break on you, you flip over. Once wave passes you, you then roll back up. When upside down, your body will generally be below the moving part of the wave, so will lock you in position (so the wave wont move you as much).

Never tried rolling when trying to get out, nor seen it tried, when sideways. I think the fact that the wave can grab your whole boat (so has a lot more power to move you sideways), and that it will be constantly trying to roll you like a windowshade, it won’t be as easy to do and likely you will get surfed in some (or maybe a lot).

I had to purposely capsize once in a coached surf session… I got onto a wave and simply did not realize that one of the coaches was hitting the same wave not far behind me, both of us going the same direction at somewhat of an angle to the wave. Collision was a real possibility and, between the two of us, I had the lesser ability to finesse my path to avoid it. So I made a snap decision to capsize, for which I got thumbs up afterwards.

Honestly if you have to capsize to avoid hitting something you are likely to be moving too fast to mull over whether you are facing in a good direction. You capsize because you need to stop your motion, now and fast.

That said, if I was going to do it again I would have capsized and rolled up on the opposite side. I went to my generally better side and ended up swimming because both times I rolled up I immediately got knocked over by the wave. If I had the presence of mind to go to the other side, I could have sat there while the coach got clear then pretty much let the wave bring me up.

Rolling to get out through the surf is a rigorous process, and I can’t imagine rolling coming back in would offer any greater control than simply back padding, but I’ve never tried so maybe I’m missing something. I guess it would slam on the brakes if you were surfing unintentionally towards someone, but not sure how your roll will work in such a situation. I also vaguely remember getting broached in such situations and then shucked out of my boat.

In a sea kayak there’s so much buoyancy up front I can’t imagine having to roll to get out through breaking waves. The better option is to get a paddle stroke into the wave and kind of duck your body under and through the wave as it breaks over you, letting the bow pierce the wave. Getting the paddle into the green water in the wave will prevent you from getting washed backwards with the wave. Let the boat do the work.

I have tried rolling out through a surf zone in a surf kayak in short period stuff, the rolling really kills speed, and eventually I just got worn out and called it quits. Felt like I was getting repeatedly slapped in the face and ended up feeling breathless. Might work for bigger long period type surf, where you want to roll where the surf is breaking, then have some time to recover and paddle hard to get out back.

disclaimer: I don’t expect the following ‘tip’ to be used by most (if any) other folks:

Situation:
You are ‘stuck’ (can’t get out of) in a broach (sidesurf) (this being moderate to heavy surf), going toward shore quickly and there are people in the water between you & shore (or a surfer you didn’t see before starting to come in).
Intentionally roll toward shore, you will quickly ‘windowshade’ (1/2 way). Stay under until the wave passes, then roll up. (being upside down, with the drag, will let the wave pass you by)
This should be practiced before you need to use it. It is quite ‘disconcerting’ to intentionally perform this.

You are never “stuck” for long. When broached, pulling on the side of your brace will eventually turn the nose of the boat back out to sea (when the nose makes even a bit of forward progress, it speeds up and the force of the wave, and the paddle when it passes slightly behind the cockpit, spins the rear). I’ve done this in quite a few hull designs and those with greater rocker tend to respond a bit more quickly, but it works in all of them.

This is the same move you see surfers do when they dig the tail of the board into a hard turn to abandon a wave. It can put you in a very nice position to either back surf or exit the surf for a new attempt.

Rick

Thanks. Other’s intuitions and experiences seem pretty consistent with my own. Thumbs up from me also Celia on having the wherewithall to capsize. I was once in a similar situation, and knew that a deliberate capsize was an option, but I guess I had the deer in the headlights reaction or something because I didn’t do anything but freeze. Fortunately, we ended up not quite colliding but it was close. I think I would make a lousy whitewater paddler as I am not generally a quick reaction person. As far as getting in and out, it did seem like being perpendicular to the wave might be better than parallel (certainly more likely) when capsizing but I had wondered if the wave were big enough that you would resort to such an extreme (i.e., that you didn’t feel you could punch through it but would instead get tossed up into the air, perhaps in pitchpole fashion or getting tossed broadside to the wave and maybe twirled), would capsizing have a high probability of preventing that or would there be a decent chance that you would do the same thing, just upside down and COMPLETELY disoriented. I guess it’s an empirical question. Since 90% of my paddling is surf-free, pretty much wave-free unfortunately, for me it’s more of a theoretical question I guess, but I do get out to the ocean from time to time and would like to be more comfortable in the surf than I am now.

Hi Monkeyhead. Raisins has it - if you are going to do surf as a regular diet you need to go out and capsize to get a feel for how to get back up. I am told it is pretty manageable once you figure out how to orient and take advantage of the waves in all the swoosh. I obviously did not quite have that figured in the incident above. Not dissimilar to WW though, you have to work with what you get handed. That is the reason I finished Zoar Gap backwards the one time I ran it. The only result of my trying to turn around was going to be another capsize, and I figured I should call my rolling up in the middle enough of a win for the day.

My paddling buddy Tony was about to spear me, so, like a gentleman, he deliberately capsized.

@nickcrowhurst said:
My paddling buddy Tony was about to spear me, so, like a gentleman, he deliberately capsized.

Nice photo.

On intentionally rolling towards shore …
“You are ‘stuck’ (can’t get out of) in a broach (sidesurf) (this being moderate to heavy surf), going toward shore quickly and there are people in the water between you & shore (or a surfer you didn’t see before starting to come in).
Intentionally roll toward shore, you will quickly ‘windowshade’”

I would advise not trying this , it’s a very good way to injure your neck head or shoulders. Moving water is very powerful, and does not respect joints, limbs or tendons or ligaments.

I often end up tipping over into the wave, into a full low brace brace or all the way to avoid people who drop in in front of me when surfing at high speed. I am using a very short craft (8 ft,) that has very little drag (waveski), being parallel to the wave is no big deal, However doing this in a 17’ sea kayak or large sit on top, you are going to go for a wild ride towards the beach, the bigger the surf the wilder the ride. In small waves, not a big deal, in large surf, you are in for a good long bongo slide.

Doing the turtle roll for paddling out in big surf works, but takes a lot of practice. It’s always the last resort for me. It’s better to learn how to bunny hop the the whitewater. This is also tricky and takes a lot of practice.

Intentional capsize down wave when broached can bring you out the back side, but can be a bit of a finesse move and carries risks depending on water depth. I do it in deeper water and medium sized waves, on occasion. When in a broached position, parallel to the wave, I would rather throw myself into the wave as it is safer. You will either come out side surfing, or with the right body movements, you can harness the energy to bring yourself back perpendicular and surfing the wave. This works best in more energetic surf - those “oh shit” moments. It’s really great practice to intentionally put yourself in the broach position and capsize - starting with lower energy and building up. With practice, it becomes intuitive as to which course of action to take… well… most of the time.

Longboatsurfer, when you do that (capsize into the wave), what do you do with your paddle and torso? I would guess that you tuck both onto deck, but maybe if the water is deep enough you would want to keep torso untucked to act as an anchor and prevent window shading in surf. On the other hand, I wonder if depth calculations are unreliable in breaking waves due to unpredictable troughs and possibility of boat being temporarily slammed down, below the surface. Not to mention…well, OK, I guess I AM mentioning it…that in rocky areas there may be items on the bottom that rise above the nominal water depth. So tuck torso and paddle onto deck I would assume.

@Longboatsurfer said:

Intentional capsize down wave when broached can bring you out the back side, but can be a bit of a finesse move and carries risks depending on water depth. I do it in deeper water and medium sized waves, on occasion. When in a broached position, parallel to the wave, I would rather throw myself into the wave as it is safer. You will either come out side surfing, or with the right body movements, you can harness the energy to bring yourself back perpendicular and surfing the wave. This works best in more energetic surf - those “oh shit” moments. It’s really great practice to intentionally put yourself in the broach position and capsize - starting with lower energy and building up. With practice, it becomes intuitive as to which course of action to take… well… most of the time.

I can’t speak for longboat, but IMO you want to tuck for a lot of reasons (I’m more flexible leaning forward, and get lower to the deck, than leaning back, but back can work as well). IF you cannot control the capsize and roll up. The deeper water is on the wave side of the boat and you want as much water between you and the bottom as you can get.

As for the paddle, I keep it extended in a low brace/stern rudder to keep the boat from rolling over me, to facilitate rolling up, and to keep my head away from the bottom as much as possible. Until it hits bottom, and probably for some time after, I am still in control of the boat and am keeping my head off the bottom. As long as my paddle is providing lift and some forward momentum, the bow will come about and point me out to sea on the back side of the wave. This can be done at any time on the wave except when caught broadside on the top of the wave (I’ve seen good paddlers recover from this - fun to see that). It is especially effective in the soup where you will feel stuck if you do not pull on the paddle and make some forward progress. If you just stay broached and side surf, those inshore from you are in for a lousy short term future, so make sure you execute a stroke to a stern rudder (and possible scull) to turn the boat out to sea.

Example starts at 2:02 until 2:10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQ9oWLX3OM

I have still found that I can turn the boat out to sea when surfing more quickly than I can control a capsize, and I do not use short boats (16-17 feet). Intentional broaching with a solid, pulling, low brace will turn the boat in a couple of seconds or less. I have done this in surf up to 1/2 the length of the boat with very positive results.

I do admit that may well be conditions where this may or will not work (folks in Florida are probably experiencing such conditions now), but I don’t surf those conditions. I have no intention of entering with 10 to 15 foot waves. Hell, I have no business being on waves that size in a touring kayak. Though some paddlers may do this routinely, I am not one of those.

I agree it’s best to fall into the breaking wave face and tuck on the front deck with the paddle in the roll set up position, next favored is upright and in a low brace position if the wave is not huge or powerful. From these two positions you can sometimes maneuver the bow back into a forward position and surf out the rest of the ride. With experience you can just move your paddle up into the wave and get enough purchase to roll the boat up and keep surfing , using the dynamic water of the wave to roll your boat. It’s something you learn by feel and experience. Getting pinned on the back deck in heavy surf is not fun. It’s a good idea to practice a back deck roll. I actually use the back deck roll a lot when when surf kayak or wave ski surfing, since it works easier with the shape of the boats and skis, but I don’t try to move to the back deck until the wave has let me go.

I would be one pissed off board surfer if two sea kayakers kept bongoing sideways through where I was trying to surf. Sea kayaks don’t belong in a surf lineup.

@Johnnysmoke said:
I would be one pissed off board surfer if two sea kayakers kept bongoing sideways through where I was trying to surf. Sea kayaks don’t belong in a surf lineup.

These guys would be in deep s__t if they did that at most surf breaks in California. Rocks thrown at them, windows, waxed, tires slashed, beatings on the beach— -depending on how friendly the locals are. The good thing about kayaks is you can paddle anywhere and surf, you don’t need to be a break with boardies.

@JohnnySmoke My times training in surf the shore was clearly sectioned with the boardies furthest south, kayakers north and swimmers in the middle. The only head scratcher was the spear fishermen who went out in kayaks, it was a smidge unclear exactly where they belonged. But since they were usually further out it was not a problem.

I assume this is normal for paddlers with half a brain.

To seadart and smoke, you guys are absolutely right. I have no idea who these individuals really are, but where I’ve paddled the Ca. coastline, even the presence of a kayak in these conditions would be met with pretty severe reactions. Surfers here can be quite territorial (to the point of being elitist, violent, and antisocial) in much the same way gangs are (for those who may visit).

I am not advocating this behavior, only the specific skills I cited.

Rick

@Johnnysmoke said:
I would be one pissed off board surfer if two sea kayakers kept bongoing sideways through where I was trying to surf. Sea kayaks don’t belong in a surf lineup.

I would be to nervous of hitting someone with that many people in the water. I would go else were. Iam in the great lakes and no one is around were I surf. 7 foot waves later today. fun soon.