The value of custom wooden boats...

I live in Seattle and naturally see a lot of used kayaks on the local market. Some of them are custom homemade wooden boats. One of my major hobbies is woodworking, so I can appreciate the time, effort, and skill that goes into making functional and beautiful looking wooden kayaks.

But I wonder about the economics of this challenge? Is this arena more a labor of love than a practical end result? Do buyers trust wooden boats made by some guy in a garage? Some enthusiasts that restore old cars love the process but there can be an emotional letdown once the project is finally finished. When I see used wooden boats on Craigslist I see prices that vary quite a lot. But I have a feeling selling your homemade boat must hurt: you are not going to get full value for the actual boat let alone all the many hours that must going into building one?

Next winter I am thinking about building a three foot scale model kayak out of cedar. Just for fun. But I personally would never attempt at building one I would paddle around Puget Sound waters.

but one sample:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/d/olympia-beautiful-wooden-kayak-for-sale/6910304725.html

I consider that a deal. My guess is that you will never recoup the original cost, let alone the labor involved. Like the OP, I think there is some uncertainty when looking at a garage built boat.

@string said:
I consider that a deal. My guess is that you will never recoup the original cost, let alone the labor involved. Like the OP, I think there is some uncertainty when looking at a garage built boat.

Ditto this. Also, check the weight - it takes an experienced builder to keep to the design weight, first time builders often use too much epoxy, boat gets too heavy.

Guillimont is an old Nick Shade design. If he’d done it the boat would be “book matched” with suttle strips not the wide high difference color strips of that boat. I find it too “loud”. CLC makes the kits.

If you were interested check for good joints, skin damages, plumb bow/Stern alignment, and lack of warping. Look inside at rib/bulkhead finish, fit and fillets.

Best to paddle it.

If you’re building it for profit better keep your day job. Most pros have 20 - 30 years experience of “furniture” quality boats. The rest of us do it because…we want to.

The cost to build a wooden kayak is:
-same cost as a plastic boat for the full kit
-about 50% of the above cost for resin, fiberglass, epoxy and other materials give or take
-possibly more as some kits do not include seats, rudder, skeg or rigging, some do some don’t.
-tools if you don’t own them (if you work wood then not an issue)
-protective gear because you’ll go through plenty of goggles and masks to avoid breathing in epoxy fumes or sawdust the former which is toxic the latter which causes nasal cavity cancer.
-lots of sandpaper as the biggest part of the project is sanding.
-energy/electricity or battery cost for your sander or power tools
-lighting for your workspace if needed
-heating for your workspace if needed
-loss of use of your workspace you are using for boatbuilding instead of doing something else with it
-80-120ish hours of your time (sometimes less, sometimes more).

Composite boat building companies are able to not only build boats with custom epoxy or fibers (glass, kevlar, carbon) tuned to that specific boat’s purpose, but customize the fiber type or thickness based on the area on that boat making it thicker in certain areas or more porous in others for more epoxy or less porous for weight savings and less epoxy in others. They also buy in bulk so wholesale market is cheaper for them or just make it themselves. They also are able to build abroad as Stellar does in China for cheap labor though Trump laws have affected that somewhat. Just go to West Marine and gawk at the retail prices of everything!

When you come down to it your first boat or three might not be the weight or stiffness or smoothness or speed or handling you expected since you have to know what you’re doing not just in working wood but boat building itself. This is also a risk not just that puts how nice (or disappointing) it will be for your enjoyment but that makes profit impossible. The market knows a great looking wooden boat could be a botch-job because unless you are a well known boat builder with extensive reputation, when you turn around and sell the boat, the market will demand a price at somewhat of a loss as compared to all the materials in the first section of this message to account for this risk. Without that reputation you will never earn a penny for the time it takes to build one.

I had a friend build me a wood boat a few years ago that was his design and paid for construction materials only. Thankfully I did not pay him for his time because I realized he was a yacht or boat architect and not a kayak builder who built just that: a yacht that looked like a kayak. The two have very different characteristics. It sucked, it was a heavy piece of junk, and in addition it had a very fragile finish. But unlike a well built wood boat that is 30-40lbs for singles, or 50-60ish lbs for a double and easy to carry in one or two people (respectively) and be careful with it, a 180lb behemoth with an outrigger is impossible to handle carefully which makes the wood/composite design suffer more trauma than is good for it or your wallet. Plus it was too heavy to get out of its own way. And unlike composites if you get wood wet with a hull puncture it’s a problem. Well it’s always a problem but 100x for wood because it will rot and gets expensive to fix.

I think most people build wood boats out of pleasure for building it. If you want to save a lot of money buy used plastic. If you want to save some money to get something easy to handle on or off the water, buy used composite in a material that is congruent with your budget and intended use. When it comes down to it wood is only for show and enjoyment of the build. For the risk you take and aggravation you go through the new composites are so good and not that expensive that it seems like a foolish economy to DIY unless you like the process.

I’ve built 2 S & G canoes from plans. I made a lot of mistakes but really enjoyed the process. I wound up giving them both away .
I keep looking at the models you can build but don’t have a place to put a 3’ boat in the house.

All of above are spot on. You build them for self satisfaction rather than profit or savings.
It’s great teaching the boat that it is no longer a tree with monkeys or squirrels running around on it but a mobile item that can explore and travel with its creator.

@PhotoMax said:
but one sample:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/d/olympia-beautiful-wooden-kayak-for-sale/6910304725.html

I have looked at that particular boat, actually. Although it has hatch covers, there are no internal waterproof compartments. So you would need airbags or have the skills to add the internal waterproof compartments.

The seller summed it up perfectly: “My loss is your gain.”

I built a kit wooden boat and it ended up heavier than it should have been, a very common first-timer mistake. It weighed a few pounds less than a rotomold would have weighed, cost just as much after accounting for all the materials involved but NONE of the labor, and looked good simply because it was wood and I did a good varnish job. I developed sensitivity to epoxy because I did not wear a respirator at first. It did track straight and was watertight, things I had worried about.

When I later sold it, I got back less than a third of the material costs. However, I needed to make room for another boat and priced it to sell quickly.

As a substitute for a job—not likely.

Thanks everyone for the comments. I am a very experienced woodworker and have been asked by others why I don’t build my own. Up until now, I would ask myself that question from time to time. I want to think that I instinctively knew that there is a very big difference between building a wood kayak and building furniture, etc. There were also issues with being able to duplicate in wood all the lines and features I prefer in a sea kayak. And yes I’m aware that original plugs are probably basically of wood. Anyway, I can forever feel good now about putting any thoughts of going down that road to rest and just go paddling in my non-wooden vessels. Hey, more time on the water and less time in the shop. Not a bad thing.

@magooch said:
Thanks everyone for the comments. I am a very experienced woodworker and have been asked by others why I don’t build my own. Up until now, I would ask myself that question from time to time. I want to think that I instinctively knew that there is a very big difference between building a wood kayak and building furniture, etc. There were also issues with being able to duplicate in wood all the lines and features I prefer in a sea kayak. And yes I’m aware that original plugs are probably basically of wood. Anyway, I can forever feel good now about putting any thoughts of going down that road to rest and just go paddling in my non-wooden vessels. Hey, more time on the water and less time in the shop. Not a bad thing.

Not at all.

I agree that handbuilding a wooden boat is not a practical venture. True, you can end up with an extraordinarily beautiful boat, but I’d be afraid to use such a thing. Go for it if you want to express craftsmanship.

Years ago I came up with a design of my own, and built a scale model that confirmed my paper calculations of its performance. Got to looking at cost of materials, and backed away, and that was a practical design and not a showpiece. Cheap plywood, even.

Naturally I am biased (since 6 of my current 7 kayaks are SOF’s) but I think skin on frame kayaks are a good compromise for the home builder who wants to build a wood based light boat. One of the many advantages is that you can tweak the design before final skinning. Once the frame is complete, you can sheath it with a temporary plastic skin and test the performance, then adjust the frame to correct any issues before sewing on the final skin. SOF’s typically take less time and fewer tools and the materials are cheaper. Spiritline sells an entire kit of the skin fabric and coating for $145 so your only other expense is the wood strips for the frame and the artificial sinew for binding it together. And even if the skin eventually gets damaged or worn (which takes a long time and considerable abuse) it can be replaced.

Building to plans or a kit is miles away from designing and building a successful kayak.
No matter what you build it will be a great learning experience.

@willowleaf said:
Naturally I am biased (since 6 of my current 7 kayaks are SOF’s) but I think skin on frame kayaks are a good compromise for the home builder who wants to build a wood based light boat. …

Agree wholeheartedly. I was a finish carpenter in years past and could see the potential of going down the “wood strip boat building rabbit-hole” from a mile away, ditto for stitch and glue. They both take a lot of time, plus the sanding — I’m skittish about epoxy dust, even some wood dust is pretty nasty. I guess if you want a big project for the winter it might make sense - it’s also a good excuse to spend a week at the Wooden Boat School in Maine.

In my case, I built and finished a SOF and GP in a week (in a class), it’s very light and pretty bulletproof into the bargain. If I’d done it on my own, it would have taken two or three weeks, I’m guessing. It’s certainly the more feasible way to prototype a design of your own.

I’ll likely build a SOF boat, not this winter, but starting next winter. I’ve already picked out the wooden boat I want to build, the Laughing Loon Ootek, but I’ll likely not start that until I retire. I expect it to take years to complete. The point of building it is to build it. I both want a gorgeous wooden boat because it is gorgeous, but also because I built it. It is a combination of the two. I originally was looking at the CLC stitch and glue boats. I can build one of those now but they just don’t it for me esthetically. Once I discovered skin boat I knew that was want I wanted now and a full strip boat, well, that will come when I retire.

I’m even going to make it hatchless and without perimeter lines. They just hurt the beauty of the boat IN MY OPINION. Quiet water paddles only.

Just a quick word of advice for anyone who is interested in working with wood: Do yourself a great big favor; buy and use a canaster dust mask. Do not depend on paper face masks. Someone mentioned the toxicity of some wood dust, like red cedar, black walnut and others, but all wood dust is not good for your lungs. This is every bit as important as any other safety rules with woodworking equipment.

Better yet, get a respirator that contains both participate filters for the wood dust and vapor cartridges to filter the fumes from epoxy and varnish.

Bonus: You get to look sort of like Darth Vader.