Deltoid strain, Greenland paddle

For some, but not all, of the past few outings, I have experienced a slight pain in my right deltoid muscle. (I had Lillyflowers google that for me, I wouldn’t know a deltoid from an Altoid). I’m new to the Greenland paddle, this is my first year and I doubt I have 100 miles under my belt on it.

I rotate my torso, I cant the blade, I release past the hip, my hands graze and even touch the water, my top hand is at my eye/chin level and moving downward, I’m pushing with the top hand.

So… what should I look out for? I’m not sure I’m confident enough to post a video. Until recently I was paddling it more like a Euro blade with a forward catch and early release. I know I have a lot to learn.

Could be you’re releasing too late. My blade is out before it’s past my hips.
http://www.qajaqusa.org/Technique/Greenland_technique_from_the_source.html

@Rookie said:
Could be you’re releasing too late. My blade is out before it’s past my hips.
http://www.qajaqusa.org/Technique/Greenland_technique_from_the_source.html

That article describes how to do it wrong and how to do it right (though not explicitly stating it, because the article was originally intended for discussion). Excerpts from the article:

“My belief is that although the popularity of Greenland style paddling has grown steadily in this country, it has grown in a vacuum, separated from its origins.
[…]
For the sake of discussion I will refer to the Greenland forward stroke technique that is commonly taught and practiced in this country as the “recreational stroke”.”

Recreational Stroke
[…]
Exit Phase (releasing the paddle from the water). The paddle blade exits the water early, before it reaches the hip.”

Maligiaq’s Stroke Mechanics
[…]
Exit Phase. Instead of releasing the paddle early, Maligiaq allows the paddle blade to travel past his hip and the blade exits the water displaying a higher degree of forward tilt than during the initial catch.”

Compared to a Euro stroke, the Greenland stroke starts farther back - around mid-shin - and ends well past the hips. If you’re trying to reach forward and plant the blade down around your ankles, that may be the source of your problem.

Post a video of you paddling.

I used to try and reach forward. I read something, maybe the referenced article above, and changed my stroke to not reach forward and to extend the stroke past my hips.

I just might have to post a video…

From the article:

The paddle is oriented in this manner with the back of his hands and forearms flat. In other words, the wrists are not cocked to achieve the forward tilt of the blade.

One site I read suggest that I hold the paddle parallel to the water then cock my wrists upwards to achieve the canted blade. This article says the opposite!

On the other hand, it also says:

If you have a paddle that is sized so that only your thumbs and forefingers are on the shaft, and your remaining fingers are draped over the blades, you will find that the paddle cants forward naturally, since the palm of your hand is also canted forward in this position with a neutral wrist (study the image of Kaleraq Bech above).

And when looking at the image I do see a small bend in the wrist, this is what I believe I’m doing.

Back to the video. I suspect that if I was videoed I’d paddle correctly. I suspect I’m loosing form and paddling incorrectly, so I think we’d need an hour of video, looking for the bad spots, and that would be boring. Then again, if I’m trying to be correct and am not correct, a short video would show that. I’ll see about getting one made.

@“Allan Olesen”

My primary paddle is my Cyprus. Carry the GP as a spare, On Monday, about three miles from the end of a 15-mile tour, I switched to my GP because my back was getting sore. Out of boredom I played around with changing the exit so the paddle came out past my hip but it didn’t feel comfortable and made no difference in my speed (always have my Forerunner on deck). Later determined the back issue was caused by an adjustment made to my back band that morning. Won’t do that again.

Will note that during a lesson a couple years ago I was told my Euro exit was way too late. Watching video confirmed that. Coach suggested starting the exit near my knees. Took a few months to fix that issue. Muscle memory now, which affects my GP stroke. I guess if I used the GP consistently, I’d concentrate on the finer points of technique. But I don’t. Am happy to get a clean, quiet entry and move the boat at a reasonable speed.

The article goes on to state: …keep in mind that no two paddlers walk exactly alike, much less paddle exactly alike. Experiment with these new ideas and other others that come your way. Incorporate what works over time.

@NotThePainter said:
From the article:

The paddle is oriented in this manner with the back of his hands and forearms flat. In other words, the wrists are not cocked to achieve the forward tilt of the blade.

One site I read suggest that I hold the paddle parallel to the water then cock my wrists upwards to achieve the canted blade. This article says the opposite!
Cocking your wrists is wrong with any kind of paddle.

On the other hand, it also says:

If you have a paddle that is sized so that only your thumbs and forefingers are on the shaft, and your remaining fingers are draped over the blades, you will find that the paddle cants forward naturally, since the palm of your hand is also canted forward in this position with a neutral wrist (study the image of Kaleraq Bech above).
And when looking at the image I do see a small bend in the wrist, this is what I believe I’m doing.
A straight wrist doesn’t mean that the back of the hand is in line with the back of the forearm. It means that the paddle is held inline with the arm bones. That results in the back of the hand being at a slight angle to the back of the forearm.

@Sparky961 said:
Post a video of you paddling.
I don’t have one.

@bnystrom said:

@Sparky961 said:
Post a video of you paddling.
I don’t have one.

Sorry, that was aimed at the OP.

@Rookie said:
The article goes on to state: …keep in mind that no two paddlers walk exactly alike, much less paddle exactly alike. Experiment with these new ideas and other others that come your way. Incorporate what works over time.

Well my point was that your comment could be read as if the article recommended an early exit. It doesn’t. Just wanted that put right, so nobody misunderstands the advice.

What you do yourself, is up to you.

Anyway, I will claim that if you want a powerful stroke with a GP (which not all of us do - a lot of people praise the “soft” GP stroke), you will have to use a late exit. In the beginning of the stroke you can’t apply too much force, because the paddle will lose its bite in the water. Later in the stroke, you can start pulling really hard while maintaining full bite. To get the most out of this stage of the stroke, it is advantageous to exit later than with a euro paddle.

It is not helpful to compare the GP stroke to a Euro stroke because a Euro high angle stroke is very different than a low stroke. And a high angle Euro paddle is very different than a low angle Euro paddle.

If the issue is shoulder pain then a low stroke is better. If the issue is shoulder pain, then don’t ‘reach’, rotate the torso instead.

@gjf12 said:
It is not helpful to compare the GP stroke to a Euro stroke because a Euro high angle stroke is very different than a low stroke.
It’s a common misconception that you have to use a low-angle stroke with GP. Nothing could be further from the truth, as a GP works at any stroke angle. It can even be used with a high-angle wing-style flaring stroke. The only thing that would force you to use a low angle is paddling is really shallow water.

One does not ‘have’ to use a low angle stroke with a low angle Euro, but it works better than a high angle stroke. One does not ‘have’ to use a high angle stroke with high angle Euro, but it works better than a low angle stroke. A big part of the reason is that high angle Euros are shorter in length than low angle Euros.

With a longer GP the low angle stroke is easier to do than a high angle stroke. A shorter GP is better for a high angle stroke.

I’ve never noticed any difference with paddles in the 84" - 90" range, which covers the majority of GP users. I use them at whatever angle feels appropriate at the time. I find that a higher angle is better when I’m pushing hard and a lower angle is more efficient when paddling into a headwind.

Well, I would be curious to your response to the following test: Take just the 84 and paddle for some interval only at high stroke. Then switch to the 90 and repeat the same interval, again only at high stroke. Use whatever criteria you like to determine which length is better for high stroke.

Then the same comparison for low stroke.

For me the result was clear.

It’s really simple, the longer paddle requires more effort at any angle, simply because the blade has more surface area. If the longer paddle was made with a narrower blade, the amount of effort could be the same as with the shorter, wider paddle.

Just use whatever paddle and angle you prefer.

It is not that simple. Stroke geometry is the difference. A good high stroke (especially with a wing paddle, but still with a GP) should have the blade enter the water right next to the boat, with the shaft nearly vertical. Greater overall paddle length makes this more difficult. That is why Werner, for example, recommends shorter paddles for high angle.

The simple effort/surface/length relation you correctly state is not always the most salient aspect.

When you’re dealing with a difference in blade length of 3" or less, it takes a matter of a few hundredths of a second longer - at most - to submerge the blade. It’s nothing that’s going to make any real difference. I know because I’ve done it.

You need to paddle more and argue pointless nonsense less.