Sticks & Stones!
The effectiveness of throwing rocks at bears depends on three things:
l. Kind of Bear
2. Bears Mind Set
3. Size of the Rock
A rock thrown at a Black Bear who is not people oriented may get it to leave. A rock thrown at a Grizzly is probably going to piss the bear off substantially and you are going to have a big problem. As for Polar Bears it taint very likely you are going to have any rocks to throw in the first place.
I have never thrown rocks at a bear, but have thrown Ponderosa Pine Cones at one. It was a black bear and it did flee the scene.
Bear Spray is, in my opinion, more of a moral builder than a deterent to a bear. Grizzlies are known to go after skunks when hungry and despite taking direct hits they still kill the skunks. Bear spray is obviously stronger, but I wouldn’t count on it stopping an initial attack from a Grizzly.
Short of carrying a 300 Magnum Rifle, 12 Gage Shotgun with single ball ammo, or a 44 Mag or 50 Cal handgun your best bet is try to avoid bad bear situations, and if attacked protect your head and neck and play dead.
Considering the number of bears out there in our wildernesses and the huge number of people visiting those habitats the number of bear attacks is low each year. There are lots of other dangers in the outdoors far more likely to give outdoorspersons a problem.
Topping the list are hypothermia, drowning, heat stroke, and lightning strikes. Bear attacks, cougar attacks, and poisonous snake bites are way down the list of human problems.
Enjoy the outdoors and get over the fear of bears. Be sensible while in bear country and you shouldn’t have to worry!!!
But
Bears and mountain lions make fearful headlines. Myself being from Iowa where there are no bears am in want of info about all this so I don’t look stupid next summer up north.
watch your neighbors, too
A few years back I was paddling a section of the NFCT with 2 other paddlers. We had a long day of paddling, set up camp, ate dinner, cleaned up, bear proofed the site (bear barrels in the woods away from camp) put in our earplugs (heavy snorer along)and went to bed. Meanwhile, 50 yards away at the next campsite, a large party decided that it would be a good idea to “hide” their food in the deck hatch of a $2000 kayak. A short time later a bear came along, smelled the food, and reduced the value of the kayak by about $1995. These guys freaked out and chased the bear toward our site by banging pots together and throwing things at it. The bear carried a cooler into our site, made himself comfortable about 6 inches from my head and proceded to chew on the cooler.
The next morning, Mr. Kayak came over to our site and was incredulous that we didn’t wake up. All I could say was, “thank God you DIDN’T wake me up!” If I had unzipped the tent and seen the bear 6 inches from my head I would have had a heart attack. These guys were traveling in the same direction as us and we saw them at a few portages over the next few days. Believe it or not, they were calling US “the bear guys”! Anyway, even if you do everything right, remember that bears don’t have a copy of “the rules” and may wind up chewing on a cooler right next to your head.
Bear in the tent
I was in the neighboring campsite when the bear went into the Scouts tent. The Scout had several packs of twinkies in the tent. After eating the twinkies the bear apparently had trouble finding the exit and did a panic run. The Scout in his sleeping was in the way as the bear was running. The bear finally got out of the tent, which received a lot of damage. The did not attack the Scout. That is what is called collateral damage. The next year that Scout worked on the camp staff.
black bears
I’m assuming you are talking about black bears here, not grizzlys—as long as you keep a clean camp(no food loose or near or in the tents) you shouldn’t have a problem–black bears are generally not very aggressive and somwhat shy—I’ve had three encounters with them in Maine–in two cases the bears ran off after they saw me—in the third case I retreated–I came across a sow with cubs–always avoid a mamma bear with kiddies–
my advice to you is to stop worrying about it. The only incident of a black bear attacking a person that I’ve heard about in Maine involved a hunter who wounded the bear and had to track it in thick brush. He came across it unexpectedly and it attacked him. It inflicted minor injuries before he was able to shoot it.
my wife
has been handling a snow shovel very well for the past four days--even though she's not a scout master--but hey, if you need some practice come to my place and I'll let you shovel all the snow that you need to
Campground Bears
Black bears who get habituated to humans and our food can be a problem.
I’ve encountered wild bears who disappeared as soon as they realized I was there. I’ve also encountered campground bears who were not afraid of a large group of us and really didn’t want to leave without our food. They didn’t get it but I was not at all confident of the outcome.
Also don’t sleep in the same clothes
you cooked dinner in.
If you’re truly concerned
then have one person always on watch in camp. Make each adult or older boy take a 2 hour shift. Give them a couple pots to bang together if a bear approaches camp. That would do it.
When I was a sea scout we were in the habit of always having someone on watch when we were sleeping in the boat at anchor or a mooring. Anchors can drag, the wind can change direction, etc., and someone needs to be on watch to handle that.
Yup
"Overall scouts is very educational for both kids and leaders and I am sort of living a childhood that I never had since I wasn’t in scouts but did want to be."
Same here for me. When I was a teen, I didn’t really have any interest in camping and hiking, I was all about sailing, so I did sea scouts, not boy scouts. Then when I started dating my now wife and her then 5 year old son, I thought it would be fun to take them camping (car camping). Learned quite a lot from our mistakes in those first few campouts. Then my stepson and I did cubscouts together (with me as den leader) as a way for us to bond, and now we’re into boyscouts, so we’re not just doing car camping anymore. We’re backpacking in Hill Country State Natural Area this coming weekend. I have come to love backpacking, car camping is so boring by comparison. It’s something I probably would have never gotten into if it had not been for doing boy scouts with my stepson. I’ve really enjoyed learning the skills alongside him, it really makes me feel like I am making up for not having done boyscouts as a kid.
bears
Read some of the bear websites on the internet that will help you understand the animal for starters.
Poisoning a bear because it is doing a bear trait would be like shooting a human for doing something human.
Best to avoid the situation as best you can by eliminating “the reasons” why the bear was there.
They are all unpredicable…just like you would have 100 different possilbe reactions for a human etc.
Bears are looking for FOOD or protecting their young.
Black bears are the most common food scavengers…if you are in an area where there has always been food such as camps where people leave/drop food around or create a messy smelly camp…well then you will most likely have bears…just like you would also have Ravens, mice, ants, and raccoons too. They are all in it for the food. i.e SURVIVAL.
So have a clean camp and dont camp where a bunch of inconsiderate other people have camped and left food/smells etc. Properly store your food away, clean dishes, cook AWAY from tents/campers etc if possible, Dont cook in the same cloths your going to wear to bed etc etc.
In my area its one of the largest grizzley concentrations in the country…so we have to take precautions for them as well as black bears. There is NOT a big problems and for the most part we generally dont “worry” about it BUT do take the proper precaustions each time as stated above. We also HANG our food if we are backpacking or paddling in Grizz country. We hang EVERYTHING that is ASSOCIATED WITH FOOD AND SMELLS…such as toothpaste and tooth brush, spaltulas, and cooking pots/utnesils, pot holders, cooking oils, spices, deoderant, sun screen, chap stick/balm, scented diapers/and poweders etc (if you have kids) even the cook stove! WHEN DISCARDING ANY FOOD TYPE OR SMELL THINGS>>>> YOU ALSO WANT TO dump IN THE FIRE PIT if you have one. CHARCOAL IS A SMELL ELIMINATOR!!! SO…DONT SPIT OUT YOUR TOOTH PASTE OR DRAIN YOUR PASTA NOODLES OR COFFEE Grounds ON THE GROUND WHERE THE NEXT family will be putting their tents the following week after YOU left. BE CONSIDERATE OF other people and STOP TRAINING the bears as to where the food is by doing this. If you dont have a fire, try to bury above mentioned items instead of just on the ground etc. Just imagine for a moment if you NEVER SWEPT OR MOPPED YOUR KITCHEN FLOOR FOR ONE YEAR…Imagine this! How much food scraps, crumbs, smells, will accumulate on the floor? I bet it would be a lot!! Its the same with your camp location. Some of those campgrounds have people everynight for the whole summer.
Another precaution is encountering bears with cubs. A no-no! The mothers are protective of their young. SO DONT SUPRISE THEM either…talk and make noise when traveling through the woods as not to startle them etc. In my area we also carry bear-spray (mace) which WORKS!!! There has never been anyone in my area that was killed that had the spray and were attacked, and i think thats true for the rest of those who have used it. The number of bear attacks/maulings/deaths etc is much lower than getting hit by lighting, drownings, bee sting deaths etc.
Bears Can Learn From The Campers
That proceded you. A bear can trash a tent because it has learned that tents might have food in them. Even clean tents can be at risk. The problem with scouts is that they travel in large groups. That limits them. Kids frequenting any area will have an impact. That’s because they’re kids. Promoting large get-togethers is bad environmental stewardship. Scout camps are better off if they are developed sites without the food storage and human waste problems. Many forests are limiting the number of heartbeats per camp. That means your dogs and horses count as people. The problem scouts have is that the organizational structure makes it almost impossible to practice sound environmental practices out in nature. In other words don’t blame the bears blame the scouts.
yeah that too
exactly…condition response. Same with Wildlife biologist who are always sticking their hands inside the bears mouth that are tranquilized have the taste of human inside the mouth… Bear: “”'hmmm food?!"
NO Don’t blame the scouts
Blame the leaders for not training them well or not being trained themselves (or just plain stupid). Our troop never had a problem with bears in the 20 years I was associated with them. I recall numerous instances where neighboring troop sites got ravaged. One in particular had a food tent central to the site, with fresh fish no less! A bear hit it the second nite and came back every day for the week. Tore the place apart.
We strictly enforced no food in tents and a clean camp site.
Personal Responsibility
Keeping a clean camping area, by keeping food out of reach & other things w/a fragrance, is done by hanging the items in covered cannisters or using bear cannisters. That may help you, but if previous campers kept food out and attracted bears, the bears will have already developed the habit/sense that food is available there.
In WA state one year, they simply closed a camping area due to bears showing up, due to CAMPERS!!! You can’t kill all the bears or relocate them all due to PEOPLE misusing the campgrounds.
The forest is where the bears live. You can’t take them out of their home or kill them so people can camp. Campers need to take personal responsibility.
Raccoons are an issue here too. They WILL make a hole in your tent to get at food left inside, which should not be there.
-Capri
.
I have many questions here:
-First, why are guns not an option in a scout camp? Someone needs to reverse the direction this country’s thinking is going. Guns are a fact of civilization, and they’re not going away. Why would the scouts not be teaching all scouts…girls and boys, basic gun safety. And that guns are not to be handled unless with an adult? I grew up where guns were in the home, just about every closet had a rifle or shotgun leaning in the corner. They probably were loaded too, but I’m not sure. I was that they were dangerous and to be left alone unless I was with dad. Guns and the outdoors go hand in hand. Scouts, outdoors, and guns should be meshed together. A gun is a safety item, not an items kids should fear or taught to pretend doesn’t exist. The more people hide from guns, and try to extinguish them from their thinking, the more firearms accidents happen in this country. Thats a provable fact.
-What to do with bears that no longer act as bears? Teach them thats camping scouts do have guns. teach them (again) that people are dangerous to be around. teach them to be afraid. The more these granola do-gooders venture into the outdoors, and allow bears to push them around or drive them to camp the worse off EVERYONE is and will be. You and the scouts are not at fault here, so please dont take my words that way. You’re a victim of others who have taught bears that we fear them, that we’re a food source, that they can push us around with no negative impact. This “modern bear” attitude has also grown and spread as people hide from guns rather that be armed. When I was a kid, we had plenty of bears around without issue. If a bear ever came into camp, my dad or an other adult would have killed it without even thinking twice. So, a lot needs to change but there does need to be a gun in camp, and people need to kill these bears who have learned the wrong lessons. Let me also be clear that the bear isn’t at fault. It’s a tragedy that they will need to die simply for being smart, and adapting. Sadly, the same do-gooder granolas that wont hurt a fly are the ones directly responsible for bears who need to be killed because nature boy and nature girl has food hanging in a bag but wont defend it. Again, around here…bears that get bossy with people get shot. Bears that get seen crossing a road get a pack of hounds dropped onto them. Most bears stay away from camps, human scent, and vehicles. That’s when they’re truly beautiful and wild.
Ummmm
Scout camps have a gun/shooting program. You just can't have them in your camp site, just like the military keeps all the guns in an armory rather than in the barracks. Saves on a lot of unnecessary trips to the emergency room.
When possible the DNR will capture a problem bear and move it. If all else fails they will kill it. This happened at the scout camp we go to a few times.
When you're out on your own, feel free to carry all the fire power you need.
funny no one has mentioned
bear bangers.
I wouldn’t think they are against Scout policy.
http://www.gear-up.com/cart_showproduct.php?pid=10253
Sorry
You guessed wrong - fireworks…
I think the issue is
more about lessening human impact than self-defense. If people practice clean camping, minimize impact, and take all necessary precautions, there should be no need for “defense” via firearms or other overt deterrent measures. Especially with black bears and in the lower-48. AK is a slightly different story, but bear spray DOES work.