Kayak for rough waters

3-rd This!
My GPS confirms that in both flat and rough conditions I am faster in my 'faster" kayak, the Rapier 18, than in other kayaks I’ve paddled. Not by much over a longer distance but faster.



The problem is that, if I get really tired, in “rough” conditions, a kayak like the Rapier (or the QCC700x or the Epic 18x, not the “sport”) require user activity to stay upright. That uses-up energy and if one is exhausted can be downright a scary experience even in conditions that when “fresh” would be fun.



Plus for fishing, I’d want something stable and comfortable, not something that would ask for a brace here and there. Plus, the cockpit of the QCC700x is short (I can’t get in seat first) and a spray skirt is required (roug conditions), and there is no day hatch (I think). Not exactly a fishing platform - no room for easily accessible fishing gear and fish, unless stuffed in the hatches… But I don’t fish, so what do I know…

"confused seas"
Confused paddlers maybe, but the sea is not confused. I like to use the term textured seas myself .

All of the boats mentioned are probably good boats for the conditions you are discussing, but in general terms I like “dumb boats”. That is boats that are not predisposed to any particular behavior without my encouragement. i.e. Neutral both above and below the waterline. Of course the only real test is for you to paddle the boat in the conditions you mention. However, I would recommend training in those conditions to become less confused before one decides on a particular boat. I must confess that I am the distributor of Rockpool Kayaks in North America as well as the producer of the Rockpool Alaw Bach TCC, and as such I have a particular bias for these boats. Good luck and happy paddling!!

handling qualities
For A to B travel in windy and choppy conditions, the first requirement is a boat that lets you hold any direction with respect to the wind, without excessive stroking, or sweeps, on one side. It must also be stable enough that you don’t have to interrupt your forward motion for bracing. You must also be able to turn into or off the wind without excessive difficulty. It is also very nice if it does not broach too quickly in following conditions.



Before a boat is deemed good in rough water it should pass these tests.



Rough tide race or surf play requires different handling qualities.

confused
The term ‘confused sea state’ is used in the scientific literature, so is a perfectly cromulent word to use.



I mentioned the Coaster above, but in general, all the Mariner Kayaks are famously wind-neutral, resist broaching and are generally well-behaved in dicey conditions. They’re hard to find on the east coast, however.

confused seas…

– Last Updated: Oct-14-10 4:56 PM EST –

wave reflections, wind waves at an angle to swell, add some current and rough underwater terrain..yoll get "Confused seas" of course they are not confused, but extremely complicated interactions. waves imposing fase interactions etc..i have studied analogue synths quite a lot..its similar..that being said, im looking forward to cheking out the rockpools! The shopowner where i bought my pintail are now selling rockpool too. We have become very good friends, so i wouldnt be surprised if i end up with an ISEL to compliment the drunk bordercollie
PINNY..fishing...i used to have a pungo: very nice kayak actually..

Marlin

– Last Updated: Oct-16-10 10:40 PM EST –

The Kaskazi Marlin is the boat I have used in 30 knot winds and rough conditions. I think the Aquanaut is on the short list. FishHawk

My
go-to yak on our Northern California coast is my 15’SOT with a full body wet suit. Have been in some nasty conditions where the chance of a spray skirt release is a major problem. And remounts are way easier on a big SOT

confused
CROMULENT ?

Neologisms embiggen us all…
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent?rdfrom=Cromulent

Mariner Kayaks
Odd that you would mention Mariner Kayaks as wind neutral. I have never paddled a kayak more predisposed to lee cocking than a Mariner boat, although the Mariner ll is a very fine boat in other respects. Are you sure you mean Mariner Kayaks from Seattle?

When you are ready
to handle rough water you probably don’t need to ask this question.



Sorry to sound like a smart a$$ but it’s like asking what’s the best motorcycle to race with; if you are skilled enough to race you know what bike suit you better.

I don’t find that logical

Rough water requires skills
when you have developed those skills you know what boat suit you better in rough conditions

Thanks…I’ve never undestood "confused"
Can the sea be “confused”? I doubt it. Buy whatever kayak fits and gives you a hard-on. Then go paddle the thing on cool trips and forget the internet.

F1
Agree with Carl, the F1 is probably one of the best rough water boats.



If you “have” to have a production boat, the Romany is a good one.



Bill H.

"extremely complicated interactions"
Well put.



However, though the sea is not confused, the term does exist in the literature and we all have some sense of its meaning.



Among my favorite terms for referring to other than calm water are clapitos (which can readily be ‘confused seas’)and lumpy water.



I am particularly fond of lumpy water as a general term. I believe I first heard the term from Tom Bergh years ago. The other general term for other than calm water often heard in these parts is ‘interesting water’ which I think derives from Steve Maynard.

Hearsay
I guess I’m busted, I’ve never managed to paddle a Mariner (yes, the ones from Seattle), but have read in many places that they are wind neutral. So I am reporting hearsay as fact, which is a mistake. If your experience is otherwise, then you get the final word.



I will say that my SC-1, which is a skin-on-frame version of the Coaster, is completely neutral. Apparently the F-1 is similar, but these are Brian’s boats, not Mariner’s.

Wave terminology

– Last Updated: Oct-17-10 11:00 AM EST –

Well, the various colorful terms for sea state have specific meanings which are different, so they aren't really synonyms.

'Clapotis' is a term for the standing wave pattern that results when a wave train reflects back on itself from a hard surface (e.g. a rock face). If the waves hit square, you get a standing wave with rapidly rising and falling peaks. If the waves hit at an angle, then the interference pattern (of the wave train with itself) will be in the form of rapidly oscillating pyramid waves.

'Confused seas' is taken to mean crossing seas, i.e. ocean waves progressing in several directions at once. This is from http://www.seatalk.info, an online nautical dictionary.

'Lumpy seas' or 'lumpy water' seems like a good general purpose term for a sea state that is a mix of wave frequencies, amplitudes and directions. However, 'Lumpy water' is also used in the waste water field, to refer to, well, fill in the blank yourself. So I wouldn't use the term myself, unless I was paddling in the East River during a large storm runoff...

Thank you for the clarifications
I did not mean that all the terms mentioned were synonymous - though it apparently read in that manner…



Of the terms I mentioned, I was aware that clapitos is very specific. I did not know the specificity of ‘confused seas’ nor the meaning of ‘lumpy water’ in common parlance associated with waste water…



I guess for a general term for not calm seas I may stick with ‘interesting’ :wink:

YMMV
with Mariners, depending on how you load them and where you place your seat. At least that’s my experience with the Express. When balanced, it is quite easy to handle in wind.