Kayak for rough waters

confused
The term ‘confused sea state’ is used in the scientific literature, so is a perfectly cromulent word to use.



I mentioned the Coaster above, but in general, all the Mariner Kayaks are famously wind-neutral, resist broaching and are generally well-behaved in dicey conditions. They’re hard to find on the east coast, however.

confused seas…

– Last Updated: Oct-14-10 4:56 PM EST –

wave reflections, wind waves at an angle to swell, add some current and rough underwater terrain..yoll get "Confused seas" of course they are not confused, but extremely complicated interactions. waves imposing fase interactions etc..i have studied analogue synths quite a lot..its similar..that being said, im looking forward to cheking out the rockpools! The shopowner where i bought my pintail are now selling rockpool too. We have become very good friends, so i wouldnt be surprised if i end up with an ISEL to compliment the drunk bordercollie
PINNY..fishing...i used to have a pungo: very nice kayak actually..

Marlin

– Last Updated: Oct-16-10 10:40 PM EST –

The Kaskazi Marlin is the boat I have used in 30 knot winds and rough conditions. I think the Aquanaut is on the short list. FishHawk

My
go-to yak on our Northern California coast is my 15’SOT with a full body wet suit. Have been in some nasty conditions where the chance of a spray skirt release is a major problem. And remounts are way easier on a big SOT

confused
CROMULENT ?

Neologisms embiggen us all…
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent?rdfrom=Cromulent

Mariner Kayaks
Odd that you would mention Mariner Kayaks as wind neutral. I have never paddled a kayak more predisposed to lee cocking than a Mariner boat, although the Mariner ll is a very fine boat in other respects. Are you sure you mean Mariner Kayaks from Seattle?

When you are ready
to handle rough water you probably don’t need to ask this question.



Sorry to sound like a smart a$$ but it’s like asking what’s the best motorcycle to race with; if you are skilled enough to race you know what bike suit you better.

I don’t find that logical

Rough water requires skills
when you have developed those skills you know what boat suit you better in rough conditions

Thanks…I’ve never undestood "confused"
Can the sea be “confused”? I doubt it. Buy whatever kayak fits and gives you a hard-on. Then go paddle the thing on cool trips and forget the internet.

F1
Agree with Carl, the F1 is probably one of the best rough water boats.



If you “have” to have a production boat, the Romany is a good one.



Bill H.

"extremely complicated interactions"
Well put.



However, though the sea is not confused, the term does exist in the literature and we all have some sense of its meaning.



Among my favorite terms for referring to other than calm water are clapitos (which can readily be ‘confused seas’)and lumpy water.



I am particularly fond of lumpy water as a general term. I believe I first heard the term from Tom Bergh years ago. The other general term for other than calm water often heard in these parts is ‘interesting water’ which I think derives from Steve Maynard.

Hearsay
I guess I’m busted, I’ve never managed to paddle a Mariner (yes, the ones from Seattle), but have read in many places that they are wind neutral. So I am reporting hearsay as fact, which is a mistake. If your experience is otherwise, then you get the final word.



I will say that my SC-1, which is a skin-on-frame version of the Coaster, is completely neutral. Apparently the F-1 is similar, but these are Brian’s boats, not Mariner’s.

Wave terminology

– Last Updated: Oct-17-10 11:00 AM EST –

Well, the various colorful terms for sea state have specific meanings which are different, so they aren't really synonyms.

'Clapotis' is a term for the standing wave pattern that results when a wave train reflects back on itself from a hard surface (e.g. a rock face). If the waves hit square, you get a standing wave with rapidly rising and falling peaks. If the waves hit at an angle, then the interference pattern (of the wave train with itself) will be in the form of rapidly oscillating pyramid waves.

'Confused seas' is taken to mean crossing seas, i.e. ocean waves progressing in several directions at once. This is from http://www.seatalk.info, an online nautical dictionary.

'Lumpy seas' or 'lumpy water' seems like a good general purpose term for a sea state that is a mix of wave frequencies, amplitudes and directions. However, 'Lumpy water' is also used in the waste water field, to refer to, well, fill in the blank yourself. So I wouldn't use the term myself, unless I was paddling in the East River during a large storm runoff...

Thank you for the clarifications
I did not mean that all the terms mentioned were synonymous - though it apparently read in that manner…



Of the terms I mentioned, I was aware that clapitos is very specific. I did not know the specificity of ‘confused seas’ nor the meaning of ‘lumpy water’ in common parlance associated with waste water…



I guess for a general term for not calm seas I may stick with ‘interesting’ :wink:

YMMV
with Mariners, depending on how you load them and where you place your seat. At least that’s my experience with the Express. When balanced, it is quite easy to handle in wind.

Wow, no mention of the Caribou?
The Caribou is still the first pick of mine for really “confused (rough)” water… No boat takes better care of me, and I’ve paddled most of the boats mentioned in this thread.

Personally Own a QCC 700

– Last Updated: Oct-17-10 7:05 PM EST –

and if I paddled primarily on ocean waters, as opposed to paddling on Lake Ontario and the Adirondack lakes, I would be looking at the Surge:

http://www.billingtonseakayak.com/SurgeKayak.html

Guess that's why folks often own more than one boat.

Mike

Must haves and good to haves
I think the best way to approach a boat choice decision is to decide what your must haves are and be sure to get that, then get as many nice to haves as you can. My Cetus is fast, a nice to have as I like to have my effort produce as much distance as possible. It is very maneuverable, which is nice to have fooling around on a day paddle. It carries enough so I do not go without anything I want, which is nice. But I go on an exposed ocean trip each year- this year from San Josef Bay on NW Vancouver Island, north around Cape Scott to Cape Sutil, and then back around Cape Scott to the Bay. And I can tell you that, for me, when I am rounding a Cape or Point in confused and breaking seas, high wind, in fog and rain making it hard to see, in a place with no one else around, when you sometimes have to take your eyes off the waves, stability, controlability, and predictability, which the Cetus has in spades, is a must have. If you are going to be out there in those conditions, do not compromise on the must haves to get a nice to have- when you are there you will be very happy you did not.

Peter