protection from lightning

odds of being struck
The discussion seems to have taken an odd turn. The odds of getting struck by lightning overall are pretty low. These general odds don’t apply if your outdoors in a lightning storm, since the general odds include everyone and not just people in lightning storms.



After watching a bolt hit about 50yds away as I was standing on the side of a river last year I reviewed that NOAA site. My recollection is that there was no proven method of significant improving your odds of not getting hit apart from getting indoors. I would portage an aluminum canoe during a lightning storm but I’m not confident that I know of any course of action to lessen the odds of getting hit.

Shouldn’t this be on B&B?

What you say is true. But are the odds
of getting struck in a thunderstorm, even if you are portaging in the middle of one, high enough to make you cancel outdoor plans? Because that seems to be what NOAA wants us to do, whenever there is a chance of thundershowers.



I was inside my house, safe in bed, when lightning struck a tree in the yard outside. It was the 1950s, when we were trained to duck and cover in a nuclear attack. So, I hit the floor before I smelled the ozone. But if I had been wandering around outside in the storm, would my odds of being struck have been much higher? Or would I have died of a respiratory disease?



Just to re-emphasize the irrational focus NOAA has on lightning, note their advice that SCUBA divers dive deep in the water until lightning is over. NOAA does not even mention the possibility that the total situation should be assessed before deciding what the divers and support boat should do.

marinas more dangerous than storms
Personally, I am more concerned about electrocution hazards around docks and marinas than I am about lightning.



http://www.todaysthv.com/news/PDF/electric_shock_drowning_incidents.pdf



Being a career electrician and electrical inspector, I cringe at the wiring installations and jerry rigging I see around shoreline structures and powered boats and am very leery of metal docks, particularly in fresh water. There has been suspicion that more drowning deaths occur due to electrical faults around these facilities than are officially accounted for. This is because it is difficult to substantiate that a drowning only occurred because the victim was immobilized by stray currents.

a storm comes up while paddling …

– Last Updated: Jul-05-11 11:58 AM EST –

....... they happen and there's always been time in advance to get prepaired for it as best as possible . Been there enough to know that I want to get to shore if at all (and as soom as) possible to find the best cover available from the direct force of the storm .

It will pass . I'll will have put on my rain gear and hunkered down . My canoe may be able to be on shore with me so I could use it to help cover me . The trees if thick enough can help block the winds and driving rains to a great extent . if there isn't anything more substantial than the forest to take cover in/under , I'll just sit down and be exposed as little as possible .

Oh , lighting ... well , I'll be hoping it doesn't come down and hit me . It's busting all around and missed me so far , probably will stay that way ... or it won't and zap .

I mean you don't know where that next lighting bolt is going to hit , how close or far it will be to you , if it will hit the ground or not ... can't tell you how many times I've said , man that was close after I regained my composure . That lighting crack is loud , startles the hell out of you , and sometimes you can feel some type of air impact or sensations from a close strike .

And if that lighting seems to be trying purposefully to zero in on me and gets me spooked , maybe I'll jump up and run around in zig zag motions like a jack rabbit all over the area thinking it's harder to hit a moving target , lol .

I guess my main point is , you're out there , the storm is on you , you may wish you were some place else at the moment , but you're not . So protect and cover yourself from the beating that's coming your way as best you can with what you've got ... and it will pass , you'll either be there to see it go away , or you won't .

Chances are you're going to take some level of thrashing , so do what you can about those things you have some control over ... i personally don't think you have any control over the lighting other than being inside a building . etc. , and even then people have been struck just sitting inside their house .

could be very accurate Glenn…
makes sense…

It depends
Around here in Colorado, the rule is to get off high mountain peaks by early afternoon because by 3pm thunderstorms will be coming in and all hell will be breaking loose up there. I follow that advice. If I was paddling on a high mountain lake, I would do the same thing. Predicted thunderstorms don’t usually stop me from paddling on low elevation rivers.

However, I have no objective data to support the wisdom of these decisions. It’s probably safer to hide in my basement but I don’t.

Thread Starter Lightning
Every summer we can count on at least one good lightning thread.



According to the Lightning Safety Institute or some such body, the only safe places to be in lightning storms are a “substantial” structure or a completely enclosed vehicle. Other than that, you roll the dice, because lightning is completely impetuous and unpredictable. There are no rules. It can strike anywhere.



If you live in the mid Atlantic region, and you pursue paddling in summer, especially if you take overnight and longer trips, you are going to get stuck in a lightning storm sooner or later, either while you are on the water or camped. Short of finding a substantial structure or completely enclosed vehicle, you are going to be at risk, and it doesn’t matter much if you get out of your boat and kneel on your pfd, keep paddling, under trees, not under trees; you are at risk.



I take comfort from the stuff I see sticking out of the water. There are duck blinds, pilings, osprey nests, navigational markers and the occaisional tree. Such objects are usually considerably taller than I am when I am paddling, and if lightning is such a huge risk, why do we still see these things on the water? Why are they not charred by lightning strikes–these things are out there for every storm for years on end? OTOH, we don’t see those objects that got hit. They are not there anymore. But, if being 3 feet tall on open water automatically drew lightning, these objects sticking out of the water would not be sticking out of the water.



I do not disparage any of the advice given by other posters, but I maintain you are just as safe continuing your trip when lightning starts, repeating this mantra: small target, big water. It doesn’t really help, lightning still scares me pooh-less.



I was camped on a river bank on the Potomac the morning of July 3. A booming T-storm rolled through from about 4-5 a.m. We survived. About 7:30 a.m., I’m sitting there enjoying some coffee and oatmeal, watching the mist roll over the river. There was no wind to speak off. Suddenly, there was a cracking, crashing sound as a large tree came falling out of the forest about 50’ away, slamming down onto the riverside rocks. That’s the second time I’ve been camped on the Potomac when a tree randomly crashed down on an otherwise peaceful morning. A fellow was killed on the C&O towpath the same day. He was biking and a tree fell on him. I’m beginning to think all this emphasis on lightning is misplaced.



~~Chip

Surface
If lightning hits water, it apparently tends to spread across the surface, reaching out over a wide area. When lightning hits a tree, it tends to go straight to the ground, through roots, or nearby objects. We had a local swimmer killed by lightning last year when lightning hit the water about 10 miles in front of a storm system.



So, my preference is to be off the water and if lightning happens to hit right where I’m standing, it was just my day to go. If I stay on the water, lightning might hit hundreds of feet away and still reach over to where I am as it travels over the surface looking for that path of least resistance.



I’ve never heard of a local paddlers getting hit by any type of lightning, but I don’t want to be the first.



Every now and then you get a pop up thunderstorm and there just isn’t a good spot to toake out and at that point you just have to look around and see what option makes the most sense to you, but it’s not a good feeling when you can’t get out a full “One-Mississippi” before the thunder sounds.

good question
That raises an interesting question. Has anyone ever heard of a canoeist or kayaker being hit by lightning when they were on the water? I’ve heard of lots of sailboat masts being hit but never personally heard of a paddler being hit when on the water.

Yes, a kayaker took a near-hit on the
Hiwassee. Friends of mine were cowering on exposed rocks on the Chattooga, and were lightly zapped by a strike nearby. But in my 35+ years of canoeing, verifiable reports of people zapped on the rivers are rare.



That’s why I say, NOAA is focused on the finite possibility that people may be outside and take a direct strike. They say, go indoors instead, and no one can argue with that. If you put maximum priority on not taking the big lightning hit that will kill or maim you, get indoors, stay indoors.



But NOAA does not admit that the chance of a direct hit is low. It isn’t irrational to be enjoying the outdoors in a thunderstorm. It’s even kind of exciting.

Yes
The high likelihood of afternoon thunderstorms in July and August would make me (1) paddle early in the day and (2) stick close to shore for a hasty retreat if I’m out in the afternoon.



I wouldn’t cancel my plans, but I would definitely modify them.








My Tilley Hat has the optional
Faraday cage.



I paddle with impunity.



Jim

trees falling …
… once out on Lake Redman early in the morning , mist just lifting , we heard this loud cracking sound that drew our attention . We couldn’t see the tree that was falling but the fall sounded long as it was takimg a number of branches from trees close to it . Very loud echoing down into the lake area . The falling tree was on a pretty steep hillside .



Back about 71 give or take a year , a young couple from G.B. high school were in Patapsaco (swinging bridge area) and a tree fell and killed him . They were friends of the girl I was dating who became my wife later .



hey Chip , we were up on the C&O in Hancock on the 4th . I’m guessing you were asleep in a tent when the storm rolled through . When a storm wakes me up while camping , I just roll over and go back to sleep , what else can you do ?? Having a tree 50’ or so away fall while drinking morning coffee would be an interesting start to the day !!


Lightning strike probabilities
There seem to be a lot of comments blaming NOAA for “overreacting” to lightning, but their “fear-mongering” is justified. I’m a meteorologist, so this is one topic that I actually know something about (unlike most others). The reason why the probability of being struck by lightning appears to be low is because the vast majority of the population is not outside when severe storms occur. If everyone ran outside when a severe storm is occurring, you’d find that the chances of being struck are a lot higher than you think. Most people are sane enough to stay indoors when severe weather occurs. The reason why few paddlers get struck is because not many people go paddling when there is a strong chance for storms. Of course you can, especially in the South, get caught in an afternoon quickie thunderstorm, but these are rarely severe thunderstorms, and tend to last for a very short duration. The big frontal severe storms are well-forecasted and people generally stay inside those days, especially if you have outdoor plans.



If you’re out on the water when a severe thunderstorm is approaching or lightning has struck nearby, get to the shore as quickly as possible, unless it’s just rock outcrops or barren sandy beach. If so, then you’re simply in the position of hoping you don’t get struck.

This is a classic problem
and this is a cogent comment. At the individual level, the question of how likely YOU are to be struck by lightning comes down to what the environmental circumstances are that increase or decrease your “chances”. What can you do to decrease your chances in the circumstances you are in? You cannot derive those statistics from aggregate statistics. That is a well known statistical fallacy. But you can get a handle on it by analyzing the physical processes involved. So “exposure” may be important for aggregate statistics but useless for individual fate.

Waiting it out in wet wetsuits
I’ve gotten out of the kayak only to wonder if standing around in wet clothing is riskier than changing out of the wet wetsuit.



If I were done for the day, this question would not occur to me; I’d change and drive home. But if I’m merely waiting for what looks like the last storm cell to pass and will get back on the water after that, should I be standing on…oh, I dunno, maybe my PFD? The picnic tables nearby are vinyl-coated steel.

I see your logic, cave demon, but don’t
agree with your contention that there are so few paddlers out during thunderstorms that no one gets struck.



In fact, summer thunderstorms ride over the Ocoee, the Hiwassee, the Nantahala, the Tuck, and the Pigeon when there are very large numbers of people on the water. Raft services don’t cancel trips because of the possibility of thunderstorms. Private boaters don’t stay home because thunderstorms may come up in the afternoon.



In my 35 years of being in close touch with what happens on these rivers, I know of only one incident where a WW kayaker was stunned by a near miss on the Hiwassee.



I guess if you had any actual statistics, you’d provide them. But don’t argue from the supposed rarity of exposure. There’s plenty of people out on the water during thunderstorms, and given that, the low rate of actual strikes stands in sharp contrast to NOAA’s nanny advice.

“large” is relative
There are very large numbers of paddlers (who are a small percentage of the population) in a relatively small and low population density area. The sum total is a ‘relatively’ low number of people, hence the relatively low number of people struck by lightning.



Companies don’t cancel trips, and private boaters might not stay home, if there is a possibility of a thunderstorm. HOWEVER, when there IS a thunderstorm people seek shelter. Most get off of the water when a thunderstorm is happening in close proximity.


“large” is relative
There are very large numbers of paddlers (who are a small percentage of the population) in a relatively small and low population density area. The sum total is a ‘relatively’ low number of people, hence the relatively low number of people struck by lightning.



Companies don’t cancel trips, and private boaters might not stay home, if there is a possibility of a thunderstorm. HOWEVER, when there IS a thunderstorm people seek shelter. Most get off of the water when a thunderstorm is happening in close proximity.