ok.. so i posted something similar on the paddlers place forum, but have had little feed back.. I am looking for a wilderness tripping canoe. I own a penobscott 16 royalex, and a ranger otter, i love them both for diff uses. I like the ranger but my party for my trip has expanded from me and my dog to me my dog and my brother, so i was looking for a longer canoe with more capacity. I really like the shallow v of my ranger in rough water, some say the shallow arch when loaded is just as good.. what are your thoughts from the experienced trippers here? I reviewed and searched the reviews and products here, and the one i find fits my needs best is the new mad river expedition series 186, with all three of us and gear, i think we will need the room... I have been to the Quetico 3 times when i was 13, 15, and 17 for week long trips, but used a 17' allumacraft for all three. I am open to suggestions for boats etc, and this will be almost the only thing i use this canoe for, annual trips with my dog and bro to the Q...weight wise I am 215+/- my dog 90 and my brother 190 plus roughly 200 lbs of gear food and fishing gear i am guessing, we plan on going for about 8 or 9 days in the park. If anyone from the other forum reads this, i do appreciate your advise, just looking for more feedback..