Compelled…
I haven’t backed off in my paddling either and did my first open water race on Lake Michigan this year. I think I was the oldest competitor in the long race (22.5 miles). I want to paddle the entire NFCT and someday I still would like to paddle with JackL.
I would be honored
come on down to South Florida next March, and join “the bride” and I when we attempt to do the 300 mile Everglades challenge in our “BGD” tandem
Notice I said “attempt”. we’ll brag about it if we complete it in the time allotment.
Jack L
That wasn’t my point
"Your post pre-judges the likelihood of someone being able to learn a roll with a GP based on their age and condition."
–Not at all. I’m saying that individuals are aware of their physical status and able to make decisions about what they can or should do. People know when their physical limitations make any activity unwise. No one should have to defend their decision to not do something.
“So I disagree with advising others that they shouldn’t due to age etc.”
–I don’t think you will find that advice anywhere in what I posted. I’m not giving anyone advice at all. My only request is to respect what people decide for themselves, as my title says.
Very good examples, thanks
I think it’s hard to come to the realization that although you can still paddle just fine, if you can’t self-rescue and you paddle alone, something has to change.
Like the woman in your paddling club, I sense with all the sports I do—backpacking, kayaking, biking, hiking, etc.—that they need to be modified as I age. Shorter trips, easier trips, etc. And/or you develop new interests in other activities.
I really think this whole topic is about a psychological dimension of aging, as we move further and further away from our youthful abilities and slide toward the sunset . . . It’s a process of acceptance and adjustment. A bit frightening, actually.
Age
I am 68 with a damaged heart. Once I’m in the kayak (Feathercraft Kahuna) I’m fine. My problem is going down to the ground to load up and carrying the boat to the car.The effort leaves me weak for a minute or two. My 35 pound boat has been sitting on my sofa with me afraid of the energy commitment to move it. And no friends around.
Is this based on your own experience?..
– Last Updated: Aug-18-11 3:54 AM EST –
From your post -
"rolling has a high potential for causing such an injury in an older person when the joints are already compromised."
Is this something that you found to be true for yourself in the process of trying to learn a roll yourself, w/ both GP and Euro? Or is it an assumption based on what you think must be the case?
If it was the first, sorry. If it was the latter, that was my point.
I am not saying that everyone can and needs to run out out to get a roll - most in our local evening paddle group never will, and most don't paddle in situations where it would be crucial. I am also not saying that someone who knows they have an overuse problem in their upper body should take it up, at least while the area is still hot. But I have encountered too many people even in their 50's, relatively healthy, who make no effort to learn to roll because they are under the mistaken impression that it requires strenuous effort and youth. That's not so either, and even trying to learn to roll leaves a few improved skills behind.
"Relatively healthy"
My original post is about long-time paddlers who are not relatively healthy now and who arrive at a point late in life where they have LOST former skills. It is about CHANGE in our lives—changes in our health, abilities, and therefore our paddling habits.
OK - a problem of specificity
– Last Updated: Aug-18-11 9:59 AM EST –
I will just assume that this is a problem of online dialogue tending to be more vague than the way I approach limitations.
Between seven (oops - six, sorry) abdominal operations plus a well-broken wrist with pins and fixator, combined with a high level of physical demands in my choice of activities, I am used to losing capacity in a certain area at least for a time. I have been advised by a raft of doctors over the years about all the things that were no longer going to be part of my life after these procedures. The doctors were smart, talented folks all tops in their field between here and NYC. I have tended to be damned lucky at falling into good doctors.
But thus far they have been wrong, because they operated on assumptions rather than personal experience. The only doc who had it right about my riding (hunter/jumper) after the illeostomy was a doctor who did eventing herself, for example. She knew the strength for riding was distributed through the body, the others didn't.
Rolling a kayak has traditionally produced the same reaction for ostomites, forever a no-no because of impact in the core aera, but I now see doctors who have kayaked themselves and understand that it is not necessarily a big strength move that'll stress things unduly.
These doctors are intelligent guys, whose business is the human body. But I found that it still takes one who has tried what I am doing to make a good judgement.
ask for help have tip money in pocket
Arthritis, very severe in my low back makes loading and unloading, difficult. My kayak is not light, but it is one which works for me.
I am glad to read that I’m not alone in having disabilities while still wishing to kayak. Most people look at me and they say “you do what” because I don’t look or move like someone who would go paddle around the circumference of an inland Michigan or Ohio lake.
I’m staying out of rivers now, the Hocking River ate my confidence.
How sad!
My first kayak was a Kahuna and I truly feel for you, being thwarted in using that wonderful boat.
You say there is no one to help you with it. Are you in a remote area or do you have neighbors. Perhaps you are like me, proud of being self-sufficient and loath to ask for help with things you feel you ought to be able to handle alone. I have tended to be that way but am finding that one way to age gracefully is to be more open to letting others pitch in. Not only does it expand your own opportunities, but there is grace in allowing others to feel the pleasure of helping.
I had my right forearm in a cast after surgery for a broken wrist 3 years ago but was determined to kayak. I wrapped my boat (actually, it was the Kahuna) in an old quilt and dragged it up the steps of my sunken yard to the curb. While I was struggling to lift one end up, hoping to be able to slide it onto the roof, two of my neighbors, with whom I had exchanged no more than passing pleasantries during the 3 years of living here, came over to volunteer assistance and within seconds the car was on the roof. I later received the same help at the boat ramp when I was unloading and loading. When I got home, I swallowed my pride and knocked on the nearest of my neighbor helpers’ door and asked for a hand again. Everyone who helped seemed delighted to do so and, in the case of the one neighbor, lead to an icebreaking conversation about my kayaks and kayaking and my taking him and his wife out on the river a few months later when my wrist healed. They later bought kayaks themselves, and though they have since moved to another part of town I see them on the rivers sometimes.
Part of being truly “independent” is having the grace and humility to ask others for help, as we would want them to do of us. Even if you don’t have anyone handy, perhaps you could see if there is a “meetup” group for kayaking in your area and one or more people. perhaps even in the same predicament, with whom you could cooperate on getting the gear loaded.
Perhaps none of these options is practical, but I really hope you are able to find a way to get out on the water as readily and as often as possible.
It still doesn’t relate
"rolling has a high potential for causing such an injury in an older person when the joints are already compromised."
That statement is so untrue…for AMY age!
It does look like it’s coming from someone who had not learn how to roll, PROPERLY!
There will come to a point, for ANY individual, that they can’t paddle any more, period. A lot of older folks find getting in and out of the kayak being the hardest due to lost flexibility. For me, I’m pretty sure my day of giving up paddling will come when I can’t get the boat on and off the roof of my car!
Will rolling go before paddling? Maybe, maybe not.
If your point is to illustrate how some aspect of paddling will become more difficult due to diminishing joint mobility, you’ve picked a bad example. Probably due to your misunderstanding of what’s involved with rolling.
Trailer?
Would having a kayak cart and using a trailer help? The loading and unloading effort should be considerably less with (low) wheels.
Is cart plus Hullavator possible?
Or something similar to the Hullavator… I know that’s a big chunk of change. But it would solve the lifting issue if you could find your way to it.
When I was young, I sometimes took
club veterans on easy whitewater runs that they no longer would have tried on regular trips. Once in the canoe or kayak, they were quite reliable, but some help with loading and unloading, and with an occasional portage, made a big difference for them.
I don’t yet need help loading and unloading. In fact, one of my pet peeves is that when I go to “throw” my canoe up on my head, younger folks rush in to help, at the peril of my cervical spine! But I do appreciate younger folks keeping an eye on me when I am running unfamiliar class 3, and some help on difficult portages is welcomed.
Perhaps…
Maybe because I’m from a canoeing background, only moving to kayaks lately, I don’t really concern myself over rolling. Due to long term arthritis my flexibility, especially cervically isn’t good enough to manage a roll. However in all the years I canoed I never rolled successfully once and managed to have a great and safe time for decades. If I can exit my yak, I’m not any worse off than I was in my open boat. In any case I’m not paddling in conditions or waters where I can’t save myself by heading to shore in my PFD. Perhaps because I paddle for peace of mind and not thrills, my adventures have been without incident.
rolling as a skill or a safety skill?
“I’m not paddling in conditions or waters where I can’t save myself by heading to shore in my PFD. Perhaps because I paddle for peace of mind and not thrills, my adventures have been without incident.”
That describes about 80% (or even 90%) of the folks who paddle. Their safety isn’t based on rolling. All they have to do is watch out for weather and have partner that can facilitate assisted re-entry.
Rolling maybe a good skill to learn because it helps so much with balance, so you end up not capsizing to even need the roll!
But as a safe skill to rely on, you’ve got to be able to roll in waves and basically bombproof even in condition. A lot of the folks who “can roll” aren’t rolling with that kind of reliability.
I always think of rolling a kayak a bit like yoga. Some people take it as a way of life. Others, just an exercise. Both swear by its benefits. Both are right.
Don’t have to do that
– Last Updated: Aug-18-11 3:09 PM EST –
Have you tried this sequence? Get one leg onto the PF with the other roughly parallel to it, stabilize torso over the deck, then move the outside hand onto the PF before spinning lower body roughly together towards the cockpit. I don't recall if I ever actually had one leg on the paddle shaft at the point the other was near the cockpit, at least that it worked. Very close in time sure, but the shift to the hand always comes first. You may need to squinch (OK, made it up but that's how it feels) your torso over the deck a little further before making this move, but that takes strain off the hand and shoulder which is good.
This timing is a lot more secure for me than trying to deal with legs at 45 plus degree angles. And that's not just an old age thing - there are days 10 years ago I couldn't have made that spread without pulling something.
Or, try the paddle float heel hook variation that was in Sea Kayaker magazine a few months ago. I found this to be surprisingly easy on all body parts, went much better than I expected the first time I tried. The shoulders and upper back were completely supported by the paddle and actually stopped it from squirreling around nicely.
Errr…
– Last Updated: Aug-18-11 2:41 PM EST –
..since when has 65 become elderly? If that's the case, then I'm approaching that age and thus should sell my sea kayak, my surf boat and my Pyranha Burn and restrict my paddling to anything that is flat and doesn't even involve the very thought of (gasp) ROLLING.
I started paddling in my fifties and was never what one would call an athletic lady, having suffered through required (yes, and "required" gym shows how old I am, too.) gym classes in high school and college. In order to have the strength and stamina to paddle effectively and safely, I've spent the past two years at the Y working with a trainer on cardio and with weights, along with spin class twice a week. Putting a label like elderly on anyone 65+ is unfair in this day and age. Any number of people approaching that number are still working, taking up sports they couldn't afford when they were younger because of work, finances or children, instead of sitting home expanding their waistlines and listening to their joints creak.
There are many ways of handling aching joints and limited flexibility while kayaking, as has been discussed. I'm hoping you've come away with a some new ideas and are consigning the label elderly to someone 90 years old.
Horray, Halleluhia, Bless you !
Man I couldn’t agree with you more, but every time I say anything to that nature I get jumped on by the holy rollers as I am sure you will also
Jack L
Glenn,
Your post makes total sense to me. My approach is the same as yours and it is working well. I’ve been on the water my whole life (canoe and kayak) and have never come close to an incident where I needed self-rescue or assisted rescue, due to good judgment and caution. There is just some disappointment at the march of time, which seems to speed up at a certain age. As a young person you set goals and hope to advance a bit each year. At a certain age you’re happy to maintain your level. Then you’re happy to be able to do the sport in any form.