A couple minutes ago I started to address this question, and decided to quit before I got far. Good thing I did because Pete covered everything in the meantime, including a couple of points that I would not have thought of. One of my overall points was the how the feel of "efficiency" can be contradictory between different boats, depending on what details you really pay attention to. Pete addressed the way short boats often move through the water with far less effort than long boats, and I have a nice illustration of that.
I've used this as an example many times, but it really makes the point. I have two rowboats that look vaguely like canoes. One is 12 feet long and the other is 15 feet. Rowing the 12-footer feels pretty effortless as long as it's kept well below hull speed. At the cruising speed of an average paddler, 3.0 to 3.5 mph, the effort to keep the boat moving could be sustained all day long and then some and there'd never be a bit of fatigue (a bad case of "boat butt" and the need to move my legs around would keep me from going so long without stopping, but rowing effort at that speed is practically zilch). It moves through the water so easily that it can actually accelerate from a dead stop to 5.0 mph in a single oar stroke, and accelerating from a dead stop to 4 mph in one stroke can be done quite easily. This responsiveness sure give the impression of great efficiency. The boat is not as fast as it "feels" though. 4.0 mph is a good speed, and though the boat can be forced to go close to 5.5 mph, 4.5 mph is approaching the fastest speed that you'd want to go if traveling a long distance because there's a good bit of effort required at that speed. So the 12-footer is not fast, but it certainly "feels" fast if you don't try to force the speed too high. The 15-foot boat takes noticeably more effort to keep moving, and no speed feels as "effortless" as the slower speeds do in the 12-footer, but the extra effort required is well worth it if you have very far to go. While 5.0 mph is on the ragged edge of sustainable speed for the 12-footer, I can make the 15-footer go that speed for as long as it takes for "boat butt" to set in and create the need for a rest. The 15-footer can actually stop and start pretty darn quickly as boats that size go, but its reaction time is slow compared to the shorter boat.
Is a picture worth one-thousand words? Here's a video of me paddling my Bell Merlin II upstream on a flooded river.
The Merlin II is a compromise between speed and agility. It's my hardest-tracking canoe but it's nothing like a hard-tracking speedster. The efficiency isn't too bad though, and I think you can get a feel for it in the video. Since the boat is going against a fairly brisk current, a better indication of speed is to watch the water go by rather than watching fixed objects, but take care to not be fooled by the perspective provided by the lens, which is fairly wide-angle. This was faster than a relaxed pace but not at all difficult, yet a 12-foot canoe would not have kept up, unless perhaps using all-out effort with a double-blade paddle (and probably not even then).
This is going to take some study Thanks again pblanc and guideboatguy for taking the time to teach me about canoes. Many of the principles described above are familiar to me from kayaks.
Guideboatguy, given your comments on length and ease of paddling, it seems like 12’ would work for me. I don’t want to maintain a high rate of speed. I want each stroke to be easy. I stop constantly to look at things. Ease rather than speed is the priority.
About Royalex, I thought it was a relatively stiff material, no?
So does it sound like the OT Pack might be right for me as a light beginner’s canoe on small bodies?
PADDLE: I use a 220 cm kayak paddle. Will this work with the Pack, which is 32" wide>
I forgot to mention that another goal is easy entry. I can find a light, short kayak, but not with the right cockpit. Hip arthritis has compromised my exit from a kayak. I don’t intend to give up kayaking, but I’d like to increase my days on the water with a light canoe.
It will be plenty stiff enough for your intended usage, but the virtue of Royalex (apart from the fact that it is somewhat cheaper than a composite hull because manufacture is less labor intensive) is that Royalex does have significant give. This is why it has been a favored material for river canoes. If a Royalex hull hits a rock, it will flex and be less likely to crack than a composite boat.
Some thinner Royalex hull will have visible flex of the hull bottom while paddling which some people call oil-canning. This really won't have much impact on the type of paddling you intend to do. A racer would find it highly objectionable, though.
Like Eric, I have paddled canoes at times using a double bladed paddle with an overall length of 230 cm and didn't particularly care for it because of the paddle drip off the high blade into the hull. It did work, but if I were going to do much double bladed canoe paddling I would opt for a longer paddle. You might find your paddle satisfactory. A take apart paddle is definitely desirable and I would take a single bladed paddle as well if you anticipate any river paddling as double bladed paddles are not as good in tight spots or where there is overhanging vegeation. In such places you might prefer to break down your TAP and stow it in the hull and switch to the single blade.
Pack Canoes There are two manufacturers using tumblehome in their pack canoes which will allow use of a 220 cm stick; Placid and Swift. All theo ~30" wide at the rails pack canoes need 240-260 cm paddles. Seating height is a contributory factor; wider the rails, lower the seat; longer the paddle needed. Of course. The horizontal stroke induces yaw, which requires compromises in turning to develop a hull design that tracks adequately; less rocker, especially aft.
I don’t consider RX stiff enough to be a usable material for canoes. [That said, I have a couple myself for particularly abusive conditions. They are the only hulls I loan out to friends.] Composites are always stiffer and lighter, which seems to be a good direction.
I maintain a list of all pack canoe manufacturers specs including L/W ratios I’d gladly forward in electronic format if desired. email charliewilson77@gmail.com
I think simply having a seat that's so much higher than that of a kayak might make getting in and out a lot easier. If you are already sitting at that height (or perhaps kneeling with your butt against the seat), simply swinging one leg over the side and shifting your weight to that leg as you stand up is likely to pretty easy, if that's a reasonable type of motion with your level of mobility. I think a true pack canoe, where you sit practically on the floor, would be nearly as difficult to exit as a kayak if hip problems are a concern. I'd expect that to be true unless you haven't been trying large-cockpit kayaks. That's something you'll have to figure out for yourself though (I can't presume to know for sure where the difficulty lies).
You won't find the Pack to accelerate as quickly or achieve the same speeds as the 12-foot rowboat in my example, because rowboats have some unique abilities when it comes to speed and rapid changes of speed which canoes can't match. However, you WILL find the relationship illustrated by the rowboat example to be true when comparing the relative ease of paddling a short canoe compared to a long one. Whether the Pack or some other 12-foot canoe is a good choice will be affected by other things too, including paddler size and weight, but I suspect you won't be too far off the mark if you choose that boat.
No More Mohawk Paddles I heard that Mohawk stopped selling paddles quite some time ago. I don’t see any paddles on their website, but let me know if I’m mistaken.
Practically any solo canoe can be paddled with a double blade.
I have been out canoeing most of the past month and put on some three hundred miles mostly with a gasp double blade and a thirty eight lb 15 foot long canoe that is 28 inches wide.
Being a former kayaker I have a forward stroke that I have worked very hard on and it induces no yaw whatsoever in my Nomad (related to the Merlin II) and 15 feet long. It got an honest 4.5 mph over 100 of those miles (measured with GPS)
But empty sitting on a high seat might not feel the most stable for you if you are daytripping with an empty boat. You can take a seat in any solo cane and make it lower till you do feel stable.
I too find the Pack uninspring for performance…Its too round shaped! But perhaps inspiration for you is derived more from where the use of a light boat allows you to go.
Exiting a pack canoe is not a problem even with a low seat though swinging your legs over the side is not my method of choice…having done that from time to time and often falling in as the boat skids out. I just rotate in the boat to on my knees and exit one foot at a time. Not elegant but it is secure and it works.
Good to know Years ago, Mohawk canoes and Mohawk paddles were sold by the same company. They used to have about the best rock-bashing paddle for the price (for those who want such a thing, like university outdoor clubs and rental outfits), so it’s good to know they can still be purchased.
Its funny that the op and i are exactly reversed. I paddled a canoe all my life and now paddle a kayak. I can’t imagine choosing a kayak for tripping and camping unless I’m paddling huge lake crossing or in the ocean. The canoe is so much more comfortable and holds so much more gear. You can really live pretty well on a canoe trip. Not at all like kayak tripping.
So my current use is Kayak for day tripping and canoe for lengthy trips. But from your description of what yo are looking for I think I would be looking for a kevlar hull - maybe 15 or 16 feet. But, that is just me. The pack is a specialty canoe - not versatile.
I see your point about the volume I have done canoe camping in the past. Keeping things dry and in the canoe was a challenge. You don’t have to worry about that with a kayak.
I wouldn’t want to be solo paddling a loaded canoe in rough conditions. For that I feel more secure in a kayak. I’m a backpacker and although my kayak has low storage volume for its length due to low ends, it’s still more than twice as large as my backpack, so to me that’s luxurious.
I wish I could afford kevlar but I can’t.
What do you think the speciality of the Pack is? I do want it for special conditions. The kayak will be for everything else.
... need not be a challenge. Waterproof packs or steps taken to waterproof a regular canoe pack will keep your stuff dry, and the packs are convenient to handle. To keep gear in the canoe, just use some rope. Tying two packs into a canoe takes about a minute, which is a lot less time than it takes to pack a bunch of individual items through hatch openings. Install lash tabs on the floor or just jam the packs against thwarts and tie them off that way. What's more, secured packs offer quite a bit of floatation that an empty boat does not have.
I'm no quibbling with your reasons for picking a canoe now or your preference for kayaks for tripping in the past. But I AM saying that keeping gear dry and attached to the boat is NOT a reason to choose a kayak. There are good reasons to use a kayak, but that's not one of them.
Heaven Forbid If we ever devolve to Mohawk Paddles, I’m done with the sport. There is ~$500 difference between a Mohawk and the better paddles available, double blade or single.
Cheap Paddles Hey, I don’t bash “well-made versions” of cheap paddles for the same reason I don’t bash entry-level canoes if they have a design that’s reasonably servicable (I bash Colemans but don’t paint Old Town or Grumman with the same brush). These are the things that get most people into the sport, and I figure that the “better” models among them probably contribute more than the truely crappy ones do. That’s also whyI’ve never understood your occasional comment that Old Town is the “bottomfeeder” of the canoe industry. Without Old Town, Grumman (and even Coleman), the market for high-end canoes would be a miniscule fraction of what it is because hardly anyone would have had such an easy chance to be introduced to the sport. I’d even go out on a limb and bet that you owe your career to the existance of cheap boats and gear.