Kayak Wholesale Prices.

the cult of indignation

– Last Updated: May-25-12 11:51 AM EST –

In fact, several of my friends and I were just talking the other day about the nasty trend (i call it a cult) of indignation in public and political discourse. The "how dare he/she/they offend me/us/them" has become a wearying pattern, too often replacing honest debate, exchange of opinions and any attempt to understand the opposing points of view. To many people appear too eager to seize the slightest opportunity to portray themselves as grieviously "wronged" over the smallest, even imagined, "slights".

In fact, most of what I hear on outlets like Fox News consists mainly of pointless rants of self-righteous indignation.

Since when did questioning someone's opinion, or disagreeing with them, or even offering evidence against a statement they've made, constitute a personal "offense" against them?

Oops. Guess I should relocate this to "Bicker and Banter."

you can mark me down
As being indignant about being indignant. On this I will not bend. Life is way too short to get run over. If that’s personally arrogance, mark me down for that too.



Side note, if you actually knew me you would know that I use indignance and hyperbole as a matter of style not an actually tool in my professional life. I’m rarely being completely serious about anything. So when I say that I question someone’s existence, I don’t really, but I would ask them to remember the kids in China.



Ryan L.

Great observation
that I’m sure many of us have made. You expressed it very well. What I worry about is that young folks who grow up in this environment of “I am entitled not to be offended” don’t even understand what you’re talking about. Disagreement is not an offense, but very few under 50 or so seem to see it that way.

transference
People get mad because someone is mad, or get offended that they offended someone or they have been offended. This has been going on since the beginning of time. Please don’t push this onto young people, I have had my fair share of people over 50 exhibiting this same behavior. What’s worse is they use their “wisdom” as a sign of proof they are right.



Also, my other least favorite trait of customers is when they make their problems your problems. I think it is an extension of learned helplessness in a world of blame.



Also, also, no one watches fox news. It’s the highest rated of the cable news channels and still a very small share of tv viewers. Plus kids these days don’t watch news anyway :slight_smile:



Also, also, also. This is way too serious. Kayak shops don’t make anyone rich, everyone go buy something so they can stay open and feed our need for stuff we dont need.



Ryan L.

personal "offense"
If you re-read my first “volley” in this, I framed it initially as my own response of being upset at hearing what WB’s reaction was to the curtness of the dealer he visited. In all honesty, I’ve had that same reaction myself at times in my life “well, screw them if they are going to give me an attitude, I’ll take my business elsewhere.” I think that’s a prety natural human reaction.



What I have been trying to explicate here is that we should take a deep breath and consider if that instinctive reaction is really in the best interests of ourselves, as well as the people who have “offended” us.



On a deeper level, have not most of the horrible wars and mass sufferings of humanity been triggered by that sort of defensive “indignation” by one or more parties? I would argue there is a continuum there between our personal everyday habits of indignation (to having our real or imagined entitlements thwarted) and to the holocausts our collective flag-waving and religious or political self-righteousness can lead us towards.



I don’t think I intentionally insulted WB (sorry if it came off that way). I have been trying to suggest alternate ways the situation could have been approached.



This rise in the primacy of “indignation” has real costs at all levels of society. I have numerous friends who work in health care who unanimously report that their jobs and the medical industry as a whole are becoming almost unworkable due to the swelling dominance of “political correctness”, i.e., no one is allowed to “offend” a patient/client or even other staff member for fear of legal or regulatory penalty. Doctors are chastised for, even expressly prohibited from, telling patients that certain ailments that they present with are directly attributable to their being overweight or from poor lifestyle choices or behaviors. ER staff are not permitted to evict unruly and disruptive family members from exam rooms nor to deflect chronic abusers of services (drug seekers or people who routinely tie up emergency staff with non-critical problems.) Patients file complaints about having to wait for exams or staff being “rude” in overcrowded facilities that are jammed up because those same patients won’t take their routine medical issues properly to their family doctors. Again, no one is allowed to point this fact out to the complainers. And massive amounts of money (much of it our tax dollars in the form of Medicaid and Medicare billings) is wasted in “cover our ass” tests and procedures that the “entitled” crowd demands but does not really need.



I’ve seen it in retail sales and I’ve seen it in healthcare: there is an entire category of people who revel in creating situations where they can claim to have been disrespected so they can flaunt their righteous rage to authorities. In past years this sort of pathological whining was routinely ignored by management or the whiner was placated in a benign way. I even had bosses in the past who would side with me against customers with spurious complaints, in one case even banning the client from the store.



Now, most likely due to the eagerness of some branches of the legal profession to create income stream through spurious lawsuits, managers turn around and punish employees for trying to deal rationally with such people. It is “political correctness” taken to the nth degree. The squeaky wheelers end up not only getting the grease but bringing the entire cart to a full stop. Mass media contribute to this by hyping stories of these trumped up “insults.”



This modern glorification of the “offended” reminds me of the cartoonist Al Capp’s creation (in his “Li’l Abner” comic strip in the late 1960’s) of a mock student activist society based on the campus S.D.S. groups of the era. He had his crowd of placard waving hippies self-identify as S.W.I.N.E., an acronym for Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything.



Let me be clear, I am NOT accusing WB of being one of these individuals. But his (fairly benign and admittedly understandable) reaction and action in the boat buying incident brought up the wider topic of indignation and how it should be a response we ought to be cautious about indulging in ourselves.

wrong about Fox News
Fox news has been watched regularly by 25% of the public since its inception in 1996. Furthermore it is the single most watched TV news outlet. Ironically, recent studies have indicated that Fox News habitual watchers actually tested lower than people who watched NO TV news at all on being informed about current events.



The acrimonious tone, shrill (mostly right-wing) commentators and the blatant promotion of lies and misinformation by the network, as well as its general tone of sneering and indignation, I would argue, have been a major factor in contaminating public discourse over the past 15 years.



There are many regions of the country and certainly certain industries where Fox is the major source of “news” and public opinion. I’ve lived and worked in the midst of such bubbles of rampant misinformation.

good one, Ryan
We ought to remember to poke fun at indignation at all times.



Think about it, hasn’t being indignant been among the central themes of some of our best comedies, from “The Jack Benny Show” (and the star’s signature crossed-arm slow burn), "All in the Family, “Seinfeld” and “Fraser” to the Sheldon Cooper character on “Big Bang Theory” (who is as apt to display it himself as provoke it in others)?

If you are in business
You are entitled to make a profit. Profit needs to cover expenses and overhead and something for yourself. That’s the way the world works.

this will put it in perspective
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2011/12/more-people-watch-the-daily-show-than-fox-news



This is why fox news never bothers me.



Ryan L.

but that’s a comedy show!
(nevermind that some people take it as a news source…)

Just like the misinformation spewed by
NPR?

No, but they always HAVE the right…
to shop where they like. Just because a shop is local doesn’t mean it has a captive audience.



Have you never walked out of a car dealership after talking with a sales rep who doesn’t hear what you say you want, who is merely pushing what’s on the lot instead of trying to match your wants? Have you never heard a sales rep try to use insults to prod someone into buying something “better”, i.e., more profitable? It’s not limited to car dealers.

Ripcord
Wow, I see WB deleted the encyclopedia of his/her threads and went home! I was indignant and really wanted to take my business elsewhere, but after some thought I figured I’d just get over myself.

taking my ball
and going home…oh, wait, I am home. Screw this! I’m going to the river!

Just curious…
I am curious as to what you do for a living or do you even have a job. You obviously have no business experience. Obviously you are not…but…I have a feeling that If you were a retail merchant and read your post above, your blood pressure would have risen a few points just like mine.



In this day and time, many manufacturers are continually upping wholesale costs directly to their retailers while making them hold retail MSRPs. Believe me, a 5% to 10% discount is a BIG FAVOR. Way too many dealers have gone under due to being forced into cutting prices and not leaving enough profit to cover rent, taxes, payroll, insurance, etc. Sadly enough, another big thorn in the side of a legitimate local retailer are the large internet dealers who heavily discount and operate out of a warehouse (or doing on-demand only sales) instead of a retail storefront.



With attitudes such as yours it won’t be too long until you will have no local access for your paddling needs and you will have to wait for days for a simple item…if the clerk filled you order with the right item.


Mike do you have any retail experience?

– Last Updated: May-27-12 11:56 PM EST –

Because after reading your post it sounds like you want to operate a business and have no competition. Do you pay sticker price for your car, the asking price for your home and always go with the highest bid as heaven forbid you raise a business persons blood pressure by trying to save some money.
As far as waiting days for an internet order. Where have you been the last decade? Do you think internet sales have grown because of orders filled incorrectly and lousy service?
The customer has the right to spend their money where they want and if you don't see it that way I am sorry for you because this is the reality of a free market.


Got you beat by two years.
But I haven’t been strongly impressed with how member participation and control influences the business. Still, I’m loyal and look to REI first for most outdoor needs.

really…
How can you compare cars and houses to retail kayaks? That is flawed from the beginning. House prices don’t have a fixed cost and the “price” is always linked to what someone will pay for it. Sometimes people pay more than the asking price. Cars are also different do to the money making avenues with service and finance kickbacks. The issue isn’t competition. It’s ignorance to the situation. If you are only interested in best price, by all means buy online. But you can never complain about local business disappearing, lost tax revenue, the lack of product knowledge, etc.



Ryan L.

Same question to you…

– Last Updated: May-28-12 9:52 AM EST –

Mr/Ms Jaws,

You obviously have nothing to do with the financial side of "your" business either or you would not be making such comments. Just what do you do for a living or do you still live with your mommy?

Retail wise, there is a definite gray area, price wise, between gouging someone and making sufficient profit to cover expenses to keep your doors open. That fine line is constantly violated by two people: those who cut prices ridiculously low and cannot cover their own expenses and the online retailers who have no storefronts or overhead. Both, in their own ways are cheapening the reputation of their products as well as pilfering business from their legitimate local shops all over the USA who contribute to the local economy as well as create jobs.

Funny thing...whenever there is a warranty or repair issue the super low price shop is already bankrupt and locked out of his store and the online vendor is nowhere in sight. He will probably refer you to the nearest authorized dealer. Sadly, many of the major manufacturers bean counters enjoy high wholesale volume from these outlaw dealers but conveniently "look the other way" and ignore how it affects their "legitimate" dealer networks. I have seen it backfire several times and the major manufacturer is stuck with a big $$$$ loss since the boats are sold and gone but the bill was never paid. Sadly enough, this is true justice for them for "overlooking" dealer covenants that they created (and made the dealer sign) regarding consistent pricing, servicing, and territory protection.

The local reputable dealer ends up spending his valuable time and expense cleaning up the messes of others. Even though we know that the person with a problem bypassed our shop to save a few dollars, we are always courteous and work hard to solve the issue. In almost every case, the customer is pleasantly surprised at our courteous attitude and is pleasantly surprised that we have been willing to assist and ends up a loyal customer.

If your local shop is smart, they will always give you a fair and reasonable price and will be there for you with priceless value added service and expert advice. You will never know how much you need them until they are gone.

Well if what you say is true…
then customers will realize what local shops have to offer, pay the higher price and local shops will prosper while internet sales fall.

But if people continue to shop according to price and local shops fail to meet this challenge then they will continue to close.

I could go on Mike but I just saw a mint P&H Quest on Craigslist for $1300 and don’t want to miss out on an awesome deal. Will the seller give me value added service and expert advice? Who freaken cares it’s only $1300!