It’s nice to see the boad policeman
is still doing his job
maybe he never saw Deliverance
Way to change the subject .
What does BWCA and beyond mean to you? Twelve miles on Chattooga 3 with many known exit points? One of the largest formal wilderness areas in the east, the Cohuttas, is not much as wilderness goes. The rivers that run through it have been run, occasionally. I have run one of them, and I have walked every mile of both rivers. I never assumed I was in wilderness. None of the whitewater paddlers I’ve known since 1974 would consider them wilderness.
But it isn’t that which makes me scratch my head. It’s people that come to this forum talking about trips on rivers that have settlements all up and down, or an overnight on a lake that has prepared campsites. (BWCA is getting a bit like that.)
If you want a wilderness forum where most posters aren’t talking about wilderness, you know how to get it. But it won’t change the fact that most paddlers DO NOT call that wilderness, and that the forum guideline does not read that way.
What frustrates some of you is that I’m right, but I won’t go away when you yell at me.
What are you doing over here? I can’t
remember when I last saw you on the wilderness forum. Same for Yak of Pewter. I guess you’re just another policeman, like me. Takes one to know one.
But you wouldn’t know a real issue if it crawled in your boat and bit you.
No, the only thing frustrating about you
is the anal retentive way you go about attempting to police something as if it’s yours, when it clearly is not, and the real owner seems to take no interest in doing the same.
YoS
So I ask the cops
If I travel down the Teslin and the Yukon Rivers is that wilderness? The trip will take fourteen days. Sometimes there will be no people and sometimes there will be as the Yukon is a working river. There are no roads along most of it.
I just find the discussion here silly. Wilderness is a white mans word. To Natives the word is home.Wilderness does not certainly mean where no man has gone before.
I love it!
g2d thinks being reminded he posted on the wrong board is lame! And he is so right! ROTFLMAO!
Here’s a thought for you.
Pretending that being away from a paved road for a few hours or a few miles is perhaps good for your flagging mental health. But it’s still pretending. BWCA or beyond. Brent wrote that.
On no other paddling forum I’ve ever visited are people so touchy about being told they might have posted in a better place in order to serve their own needs. It seems to have to do with the middle school developmental level and mentality of a few pnetters.
Go ahead and complain to Brent if you want to. Explain why you came over to this forum to bitch at me when you never show up here otherwise. Policing?
Explain what you’re doing over here.
Policing?
My original post makes an incontrovertible point. Many of the posts on this forum have nothing to do with wilderness paddling. This is a slow-moving forum, and one possible reason is that its purpose has been ignored. How would we lure more real wilderness paddlers back to this board?
You’ve made your argument— If you can’t see a house and can’t hear traffic, it must be wilderness. To which I have answered, “BWCA and beyond.” That’s what people mean by wilderness.
Yakky, I’ve been here longer than you, I’ve helped more people than you by a factor of ten, and I’m not planning on changing my views for you, or leaving.
I “policed” no individual in my original post, and if you don’t like my definition of wilderness, you’ve gotten to offer yours, at no cost to you. What does it say about you that you can’t choose to leave it at the level of an honest disagreement?
kayakmedic, wilderness is hard to
define so that the definition includes or excludes marginal cases, but most people I know would recognise that a good number of posts on this forum don’t have anything to do with “wilderness.” And we see rather few posts on this forum by serious wilderness paddlers.
Remind me, did you have something to say about “BWCA and beyond?”
Not yet
I have nothing to say. I will have plenty to say in September about beyond.
I like it
I know I’m one of the newer members here and well under the experience level of most others. However I have to say I like this forum and most of the post I’ve read. The ones I don’t like I just stop reading. I think g2d has a point, it’s just not a valid one by most standards.
I am not a wilderness tripper, but I do hope to be one day. Right now I have work, kids, and other things that keep me from disappearing into the “wilderness” for a month in my canoe. What I can do are weekend trips. On these trips I can practice good habits for future wilderness trips like packing for a week to practice with the load, carrying bear spray and securing my barrel to a tree even though the odds are slim I’ll encounter a bear near DC.
I look to this forum for advice on trips, wether its a week on the Bloodvien river that I’d like to do in the next five years, or a weekend on the james that I’ll do this weekend.
Typos attributed to my IPad.
Scott
Like I said…
…Biscuit Eater.
The forum could be called “canoe &
kayak camping.” That would cover what’s actually under discussion.
Thanks For The Chuckle Kids
I rarely visit from B&B because for the most part it is a boring topic. This has been a good thread humor wise. If you want a wilderness experience in the 48 wear your hiking boots. Water attracts people. It’s the #1 destination for vacationers. In some “wildernesses” campsites have to be assigned because of the crowds.
Experienced wilderness traveler don’t normally look for advise. Why would they be here? I visit just to see what people on this site like to do.
The best way I’ve found to ruin a wilderness is to designate it as one. Turns the place into a people magnet.
Experienced wilderness travelers
share advice on myccr.
There are wilderness runs in the lower 48, and they aren’t at all hard to find. That one may run into other wilderness travelers does not disqualify a run as being wilderness, anymore than running into other hikers disqualifies a trail from being wilderness.
I wouldn’t say that an occasional bit of common sense would disqualify a thread on B&B, either.
This is really just a canoe camping forum.
So…
why don’t you go pester Brent to change the name of the board instead of being a Biscuit Eater to the folks in here who like the board and how it’s used?
Get a life slacker.
A guy named SuperTroll has already
given away all his credibility. You can complain to Brent if you don’t want to discuss this issue in a meaningful fashion.
For 17 Years Forest Service Land
Was literally a stone’s throw from my door. I once shot a deer while standing in my doorway. I used to have a trail maintenance business. If you want to get away from the crowds try restrictive river. The Green at the Gates of Lodore or the Selway come to mind. The Verde in February is nice.
Wilderness is a personal experience unique to the visitor. It’s not about bragging rights. Most wilderness travelers I know best express their wilderness experiences with a knowing smile. It comes from being there. It doesn’t translate very well into writen words. If you want a dialogue about wilderness visit one with a friend.
I like wildlife and solitude in the wild
I feel wilderness is a state of mind as much as place and/or its size. It may also be seasonal in nature. Since most of what we call wilderness today is populated by human inhabitants or multiple visitors, and much of it has been human altered many times. Does it really exist today? Can we say that wilderness exists where we have satellite coverage for phone, GPS, Spot, etc? Does it really matter if your definition or mine jive with one another?
There is a legal definition for designating official wilderness areas and these designated areas exist in both the east and west of this country. So do we only allow discussion of trips in legally designated wilderness areas? What is the cut off for wilderness tripping verses non wilderness trips? I don’t think it is cut and dry.
I have paddled some wild country. I have hiked, camped, and hunted in both eastern and western wilderness areas and certainly don’t think of any of them as true wilderness. I would consider the Antarctic as such, but today there are really few areas of the world’s wild places that can bear up to that standard even when considering much of the Arctic or earth’s oceanic environment.
I feel this forum serves more folks well the way it is currently being used. Changing the title seems of little matter to me. I do think restricting the current topics would be detrimental. I think it is good that experienced wilderness trippers come here to advise the overnight tripper in a place someone thinks of as wild even when it is small of size or close to civilization.
I just have a different perspective and little interest in changing the status of this particular forum. I like wildlife and solitude in the wild. I like being alone or sharing it with a few friends/family best. That suits me better than definitions or place designation.