Thanks For The Chuckle Kids
I rarely visit from B&B because for the most part it is a boring topic. This has been a good thread humor wise. If you want a wilderness experience in the 48 wear your hiking boots. Water attracts people. It’s the #1 destination for vacationers. In some “wildernesses” campsites have to be assigned because of the crowds.
Experienced wilderness traveler don’t normally look for advise. Why would they be here? I visit just to see what people on this site like to do.
The best way I’ve found to ruin a wilderness is to designate it as one. Turns the place into a people magnet.
Experienced wilderness travelers
share advice on myccr.
There are wilderness runs in the lower 48, and they aren’t at all hard to find. That one may run into other wilderness travelers does not disqualify a run as being wilderness, anymore than running into other hikers disqualifies a trail from being wilderness.
I wouldn’t say that an occasional bit of common sense would disqualify a thread on B&B, either.
This is really just a canoe camping forum.
So…
why don’t you go pester Brent to change the name of the board instead of being a Biscuit Eater to the folks in here who like the board and how it’s used?
Get a life slacker.
A guy named SuperTroll has already
given away all his credibility. You can complain to Brent if you don’t want to discuss this issue in a meaningful fashion.
For 17 Years Forest Service Land
Was literally a stone’s throw from my door. I once shot a deer while standing in my doorway. I used to have a trail maintenance business. If you want to get away from the crowds try restrictive river. The Green at the Gates of Lodore or the Selway come to mind. The Verde in February is nice.
Wilderness is a personal experience unique to the visitor. It’s not about bragging rights. Most wilderness travelers I know best express their wilderness experiences with a knowing smile. It comes from being there. It doesn’t translate very well into writen words. If you want a dialogue about wilderness visit one with a friend.
I like wildlife and solitude in the wild
I feel wilderness is a state of mind as much as place and/or its size. It may also be seasonal in nature. Since most of what we call wilderness today is populated by human inhabitants or multiple visitors, and much of it has been human altered many times. Does it really exist today? Can we say that wilderness exists where we have satellite coverage for phone, GPS, Spot, etc? Does it really matter if your definition or mine jive with one another?
There is a legal definition for designating official wilderness areas and these designated areas exist in both the east and west of this country. So do we only allow discussion of trips in legally designated wilderness areas? What is the cut off for wilderness tripping verses non wilderness trips? I don’t think it is cut and dry.
I have paddled some wild country. I have hiked, camped, and hunted in both eastern and western wilderness areas and certainly don’t think of any of them as true wilderness. I would consider the Antarctic as such, but today there are really few areas of the world’s wild places that can bear up to that standard even when considering much of the Arctic or earth’s oceanic environment.
I feel this forum serves more folks well the way it is currently being used. Changing the title seems of little matter to me. I do think restricting the current topics would be detrimental. I think it is good that experienced wilderness trippers come here to advise the overnight tripper in a place someone thinks of as wild even when it is small of size or close to civilization.
I just have a different perspective and little interest in changing the status of this particular forum. I like wildlife and solitude in the wild. I like being alone or sharing it with a few friends/family best. That suits me better than definitions or place designation.
Can’t
we all just get along…take that any way you chose to.
people who say that…
end up in the bottom of the pool…
Like others, you have disregarded my
original point. This is labeled, and “guidelined” as a wilderness, BWCA and beyond forum, but people are treating it as a canoe camping forum.
I’m not very interested in whether people can draw a clear distinction between wilderness rivers, wild rivers, and the Chicago River, but about half the posts on here can’t be related to “wilderness” or “wild.” I don’t think anyone here can dispute that.
I’ve soloed the Dolores Slickrock, and soloed a fair number of quasi-wilderness streams in the west. Haven’t done the Verde yet. Hard to catch it when there’s water.
Very reasonable OP
I interpret g2d’s OP as simply asking what the purpose of this forum is and whether it is optimally labeled.
I think those are reasonable questions. I find myself never posting and rarely reading this forum because I don’t really understand its purpose or incremental value.
I also think the title is at least doubly ambiguous. “Wilderness” is a word that has been highly (and intelligently) debated on other boards, and I think it’s fair to say it has no definitive meaning, objectively or subjectively.
“BWCA and Beyond” is also not very helpful as a topic specifier because it implies a sort ambiguous directional aspect. To be facetious but to make the ambiguity point, if you live in Manitoba what’s beyond the BWCA could be Chicago.
The only real content help I get from the forum title is the word “tripping”. So, I’ve sort of assumed that the purpose of the forum was to have discussions about extended paddle trips vs. day trips. Yet, the trip reports for extended trips seem to show up either in the Discussion Forum or completely outside the Forums under the Articles-Places to Paddle pull-down menu. Gear discussions, which could apply to extended tripping gear, seem to show up mainly in ASGH Forum.
In sum, I don’t have any particular suggestions for re-organizing or re-titling the forums on this site, but I do personally conclude that there is not the quality of discussion here regarding canoe tripping-planning-camping as there is on CCR or was on the apparently defunct ST. That’s too bad because those sites had a heavy emphasis on Canada.
Another issue for this site re providing attractive information and entertainment regarding canoe tripping and camping in wilderness, or anywhere else, is the apparent inability to embed photographs and videos into the body of posts. I assume that’s some technical issue related to the site software.
So, this is my first and probably last post on this forum – and I regret that it wasn’t even on topic, whatever the topic is. Sorry for trying anyone’s patience.
Possibly overthinking it
One other factor is that the list of designated federal wilderness areas can change. “New wilderness” gets added. Of course, there is no real new wilderness, physically. It’s just a label.
No real freedom, either.
As I said before, most of us who seek wilderness know very well what we’re looking for, and it isn’t a short day run in north Georgia, and it isn’t the Arkansas above Salida. BWCA and beyond says it very well.
no more than the other boards.
Not any different than the other boards.
I’ve seen messages regarding baking bread, auto repairs, porn movies,
camera repair, politics, head lice and the list goes on…!
It is what it is.
I agree and I am working on the beyond
bit.
Well be at Liard HotSprings tomorrow and take off on the Teslin/Yukon Friday.
There is lots of beyond.
The Arkansas is wilderness?
Not to me, and I’ve never heard anybody else call it that, in any sense of the term.
Wilderness really is too vague a term. So is “backcountry.” The latest abomination around here is that Highlands Ranch–the gigantic subdivision nationally renowned as the height (or depth) of suburban conformity–is trying to sell its last lots under the marketing guise of “The Backcountry at Highlands Ranch.” Yeehaw, ride em, pony!
Read my post and report back.
You will see that I did NOT say that any portion of the Ark was wilderness.
And as I read my original post, I can see that I touched a nerve. Everyone knows this forum is just a canoe and kayak camping forum, not a wilderness tripping forum at all. Like a non-profit organization, it didn’t start that way, but it “died of a theory.”
What would you suggest?
I think the guidelines for this forum are ignored much more than those for the other forums, unless we just regard this as a paddler camping forum. Which I suggested we might do in my original post. I’ve gotten all sorts of evasion on the “wilderness” issue while few seem willing to admit that this isn’t just a poor sort of horse, it’s a cow!
I have a different beef
The appropriate title for the forum would not be “Canoe and Kayak Camping”. It would be “Self-Supported Paddle Camping” or hopefully, a better term for that.
I don’t think questions about guided trips in BWCA (or whatever) quite hit the target. My impression, which may not be what Brent intended, is that the forum serves as an information exchange for those who are planning their own trips, not signing up to be led by an outfitter.
The posts plugging commercial trips in here rub me the wrong way. I don’t mind the ads, just the ads that masquerade as posts.
Just curious, how many hand-holding
trips are you seeing on here? I don’t see them. I don’t object to “self-supported” but I wonder if there are enough “dependent” trips described on this forum to make the exclusion relevant.
Still, I think “self supported” is a good criterion.
I STILL Smell biscuits…
n/m