Valley's Discontinuing A Lot of Boats

I’ve heard both, but more the composites

A salute to Valley Canoe
There are many design standards that we take for granted or expect in quality kayaks and the greater percentage of them came from Valley Canoe which was founded in 1970 by Frank Goodman who was the first to paddle the Cape of Good Horn.


  1. Fiberglass (glassed in) bulkheads. This is a great attention to detail and a commitment to a unionized structure.
  2. Recessed cockpit coaming. This was not done for rolling but because it was a better design to not raise the cockpit lip any higher than necessary. Another commitment to design detail and concern about reentering a kayak.
  3. Recessed deck fittings. To keep anything from interfering with a paddlers trying to reenter their boat, the fittings were recessed. This is not just design but a knowledge about advanced kayaking skills and reentries.
  4. Deck lines. Many kayaks during those early times only had bungees to carry things and a disregard for a paddler who might be in the water. BTW – the bungees were simple parallel lines (no criss cross) so chart reading would be easy.
  5. The Day Hatch. This mandated an additional bulkhead and allows a paddler to open it up at sea without jeopardizing the integrity of the internal bulkhead design kayak.
  6. Deck mounted pump. Although this is debatable or subject to personal preference, the advanced safety thinking and commitment were there. You could pump your boat out with the spray skirt on. You could not pump another boat out however, at that time in England, everyone had a Valley boat.
  7. Molded in seats. Many kayaks of that early era flopped in a piece of foam and gave the seat a haphazard priority. The molded in seat also caused the birth of the seat struts that act like hip bracing. In hanging a seat off the bottom, they actually created hip stops in the process.
  8. The Retractable Skeg. All manufactured fiberglass kayaks now have them.
  9. The Compass Recess.
  10. Last and far from least is the famous VCP hatch. Hatches that didn’t leak. Hatches that you could open and close easily and hatch covers that float and require no additional hardware. There were a few British kayaks that had hatches like the screw on cap on a jar of tomato sauce but Valley set the standard which in my opinion has been copied but never equaled.

Amen
NM

Valley does deserve a ton of credit…
…and it’s extremely hard to argue otherwise.


that’s complete rubbish
Regulations in this country are not contributing to the inconsistent QC at confluence. This is political grandstanding.

But I thought
D.H. did all that… :wink:

Confluence boat manufacture
only manufacture of the composite boats for WS and Dagger (Tempest, Zephyr, a Dagger model or two) moved over to China a few years ago (for the 2009 iirc). At that time (Jan 2009) Confluence released a statement saying the move was for a better price point, although privately there were comments (here and other places) that the move was QC based as well.



The rotomoulded boats (Alchemies, Tsunamis, Pungos, etc, and plastic versions of Tempests and Zephyrs were all and are all made in North Carolina.



So as the discussion continues re workmanship keep in mind which models are made in which country.

Good guess
"I’m guessing it’s confusing enough to have multitude of manufacturers to choose from then to have several products to choose from after that."



Good guess.



Confused buyers are likely to go elsewhere.

wilderness glass
FWIW, I have never seen a pre- china made glass tempest but have seen an 09 and paddled 2 other 09’s and own a '10. I have found no flaws in any of those boats in the glasswork. That is not to compare it to anything else, just saying that these 4 boats came out good, and I have only seen 4 of them.

Maalstrom and Boreal Design
Sadly Boreal Design went bankrupt this year.



Maalstrom makes awesome kayaks (for skilled kayakers in dynamic water), even so so far they only have 2 models.



The quality of Seaward Kayaks is exceptional, some of there designs are great, if not as playful and responsive as some brit designs.



Atlantis Kayaks makes great quality kayaks too - they tend to feel more stable than typical brit kayaks.



Delta makes great thermoform kayaks for comfortable cruising.



Nimbus and Impex are a couple others.



All of the above are canadian (not sure about Impex).



Epic has some great designs - not built to be as durable as most brit boats, but lighter.

Continuation of an era…
Brit boats haven’t been supplanted in design - but there are more design options out there. Sleek fast boats like QCC and Epic, wide stable boats, and on and on…



But lots of kayakers still buy and love brit boats. Brit boats are also evolving: witness Tiderace, Rockpool, recent P&H additions (Delphin, Cetus), Valley Etain and Gemini…



The quality of Tiderace and Rockpool are considered to be among the top. NDK hasn’t cared enough about quality control and it’s hurt the reputation of all brit boats, but the quality of most is exceptional.



It seems brit boats are made to withstand more abuse - thicker gel coat, heavier, more reinforcing in key areas, made to withstand a rough surf landing.

Boreal was bought by Riot
Riot bought Boreal in April 2012: http://www.paddlinginstructor.com/industry-stuff/4502-boreal-designs-purchased-by-riot-kayaks.html

NDK quality problems are ancient history
I’ve owned two NDK boats, a 2009 Pilgrim Expedition and a 2011 Pilgrim, and the quality is as good as anything I’ve seen. I also paddle with quite a few people who own NDK kayaks, and the common QC problems (chopped strand construction, poor fit & finish) have long been resolved.



Of all the American composite kayaks I’ve had experience with, I would say Boreals are most comparable to Brit boats in their design, strength, and fit & finish.

Thanks for the update :slight_smile:

Maelstrom kayaks…
“Maalstrom makes awesome kayaks (for skilled kayakers in dynamic water), even so so far they only have 2 models.”



They’ve just introduced 2 new models, so technically they’ve had 4 models total.



But they are discontinuing the 2 older boats (Vaag and Vital), so they’ll only have 2 ‘active’ models in their lineup.


I wonder why…
I’ve only heard good things about the Vaag

we can only speculate…
My guess? It’s probably a marketing thing… perhaps the Vaag & Vital didn’t sell great, the designers updated/improved them, and wanted to basically say, “Hey, check it out… NEW and IMPROVED boats! Give us another look!”.



Thing is, if that was the reason, it wasn’t a great one IMO.



In the high-end sea kayak world, seems like ppl don’t often throw themselves at something just because it’s ‘new’, but rather because it’s ‘tried and true’, i.e. the accolades and good reviews have piled up, a particular boat has a great reputation, you start to see a few ppl out on the water paddling them, etc. etc.



NDK and Valley seem to get this. They fiddle with and refine boats they’ve had around for many years, but they don’t change the name. Everyone knows what an Explorer or a Nordkapp is, and that they’re good boats. By discontinuing the Vaag and Vital, Maelstrom also got rid of whatever nascent reputation/cache those boats were starting to develop.



Two other odd things about Maelstrom: Their boats have strange-sounding Scandinavian names (yep, the new ones too) even though they’re from Quebec, and they love to center their day hatches, which largely defeats the purpose of having a day hatch (i.e. significant storage that you can actually GET TO while on the water).



In any case, my experience lines up with yours, the few ppl I’ve run into who’ve paddled Maelstrom boats seem to like them quite a bit.



I wouldn’t mind checking one out, but I have no idea where I would… there’s not even a ‘Dealers’ link on Maelstrom’s website. Kayak Academy in Seattle is the only dealer of theirs’ I’ve ever heard of on the West Coast, and that’s about 800 miles away.




Impex builds in Canada & U.S. nfm

day hatch etc
"they love to center their day hatches, which largely defeats the purpose of having a day hatch"



That’s exactly what I meant by those “copy and change” designs. When a change is just for the sake of changing, it’s garbage, not innovation!



The whole idea of day hatch being off-set to the side is so it’s EASIER to get at by the paddler while on the water! Moving it to the center would make it harder, with what benefit?



While we’re on the theme of hatches, I’ve seen a few boats having a “deck hatch”. That might be a bit more meaningful “innovation”, especially for people who aren’t flexible enough to get at a regular day hatch…


for once…
…we’re in total agreement, abc. ;]