On the other hand, when I've taken out groups of relative novices (back when I had a full fleet and could outfit 5 or 6 people), I would match the least experienced and most vulnerable people with the most bombproof and safety equipped boats, for their own safety and my peace of mind. For instance, a couple of my "loaners" are folders with float bags rather than bulkheads and another was a more open cockpit, semi rec style boat. I have always put the more experienced paddlers in those because I know they are less likely to capsize and even if they do, these folks have demonstrated they will maintain their composure and re-enter and pump out the boats without much if any intervention from me. Newbies who were really nervous I always put in my old Dagger Magellan, a 17' plus fully bulkheaded big water cruiser that would keep them solidly upright no matter what hit them and give them a secure platform to clamber onto (with my help) if something did go wrong.
So I think it more strategically safe to overequip novices paddling with you rather than put them in a less competent boat than you are using yourself.
Nope, do not plan on killing any friends "But… are you talking about taking out friends who are not likely to be accustomed to waves etc? If you plan to try that, can you get a panicked person back into their boat in those conditions? "
Please to re-read what I said– a boat for friends and family who ‘GET INTO the sport’.
I’m not going to suddenly toss them into the Pacific Ocean way before they’re ready for it. I simply want a cheap boat they won’t outgrow any time soon, as they learn more and more skills.
Again, do not plan on killing anyone "I think you are proabably posting this as a hypothetical informational challenge rather than actually planning to plop newbies in Force 5 winds so I will treat it as such (and avoid lectures on the dangers of big water and novices.)"
As I said to Celia, pls to pay close attention to what I said in the OP: this is a boat for friends/family who GET INTO the sport.
They would be brought along slowly, not pitched into the Pacific on one of their first outings. I am no executioner. o_0
Your recommendation of the Venture Easky as being a cheap ‘eventual ocean boat’ is appreciated. I think those are even on sale at my local dealer right now.
Consider transition boat Something that has the safety features of two bulkheads and full perimeter rigging. It is enough to leave someone comfortable and a good paddler can make these boats do a lot in the nastiest stuff. A lesser paddler will find they want to go back to shore when things get nasty - which is a good thing.
Trying to purchase a sea kayak that will:
Fit an unknown range of possible paddlers in size,
Have the desired blend of tracking and maneuverability,
And be forgiving in nasty stuff
is a very expensive order.
By the time anyone you want to paddle with is out in the conditions you name, they should have acquired a bucket load of skills on their own as well as a boat that fits them well and the gear. Have you been in the conditions that you name yourself by the way, done rescues in them and all of that?
Over time you will acquire more boats anyway, let that process occur and at some point you will have a good array of guest boats.
Used I bought my first 4 kayaks used., the first 3 were plastic Necky Lookshas that I got for $500 each (the 4th was an unusual boat, so not really relevant to a conversation on prices of available boats). Seems that if you watch, you can get a plastic boat in the $500-700 range.
Could be good to get one that you would like as an alternate boat. if your boat is a composite touring boat (17ish feet long), why not get a plastic play boat (14 foot or so), like a Necky Looksha Sports, Dagger Alchemy, P&H Delphin, etc.
if you spot a 15LV on sale If you go to your local dealer with the Easkys on sale and spot a 15LV, let me know. Been looking for one for my BF, who loves mine so much after I let him borrow it a few tomes that we kind of fight over who gets to use it when we go paddling now. Depending on where you are located, it might be reasonable for us to drive to pick one up.
My local dealer has Easkys on sale this weekend for 20% off, but has no 15’s in stock (end of season sales are typically “in stock” only.)
I actually bought the Easky as a personal alternative playboat. My fave kayak is a $4000 folder (Feathercraft Wisper) and the Easky was the closest to the Wispers dimensions and performance in a rotomold that I would not mind beating up. I have no problem using the Easky in conditions that would make me cringe with the folder, like dragging over gravel bars or even bouncing off rocks and scraping ledges in some open rapid Class II streams. I like the lightness, too, only 44 lbs (10 less than a similar Tsunami).
Second looking for Divorce Sale. I got a fantastic deal once from a lady who was really pissed at her ex. She was told to sell the stuff in garage and send a check by his lawyer. I ended up paying her more than she asked but I do have some ethics.
plastic like a WS Zephyr or Tempest. These are stable enough for anyone to get going and will take you through a lot. A couple of paddle buddies had these as their first boats and progressed from the local lake to NW coastal surf.
How many different guests. What size ranges? For anything but flat water, fit in the boat is very important. If there is much variation, I don’t see how one boat will work.
"performance" It isn’t clear what you mean by that. A forgiving kayak for beginner/intermediate/guests in a range of conditions will not be a kayak that requires a lot of skill to control in wind and waves. I’d be more inclined to pick kayaks with a well rounded handling envelope than ones that require rolling as a base skill. Maybe a Manitou 14 or the Easky 15.
I’ll be very specific Go to nckayaks.com and have a look at what they are offering in their “in stock” boats. They are having a terrific sale right now. Their boats are as good
as it gets and some of the in stock boats are cheaper than some plastic boats.
Since you say that you are also looking for a new boat for yourself, you might as well do some comparing while you’re there.
Nice try, NewbTastic You tried to craft an OP question that would avoid, obviate and preempt the various and sundry generalities, evasions, diversions, tangents, diverticulations, cul de sacs, and random walk-abouts that often snake like kudzu through pnet threads.
You failed. (Says he good naturedly, but nevertheless donning Kevlar and Nomex body armor.)
If you are on the Pacific, a reasonable answer would be to seek out a used Mariner Coaster with a sliding seat – reportedly both a good entry and expert storm boat.
now, now, G_M… …don’t get those Nomex knickers in a twist. The OP did not clarify “not used boats” in his initial post so the responses regarding those are understandable.
And stating “in case (family and friends) really get into it (sea kayaking)” delivers nothing about the actual skill level of people who might use the boat. And none of us is psychic (at least that would admit it) so we don’t know where he’s paddling or what size the people are.
It was not a scrupulously concise question, so the slight randomness of answers is a perfectly reasonable result. Am I wrong?
Some of us post from work, by the way. I don’t always have time to carefully read EVERY other post response before hastily posting my own – we even have an exasperating security time-out here that interrupts my connection every 5 minutes, forcing me to request another block of time (and voiding anything I have been typing) so I have to constantly hilite/copy as I type to avoid losing the text.