Attention - Caution Newbs

Not so much, I think,
though it does happen. And usually I am sure the offer is an attempt to be genuinely helpful.

I think that’s the point
the OP is trying make.

I think that’s the point
I don’t have experience, but I know what I am aspiring to do. So I want to find someone that fits into what I want to do. Then I want to know “what they want for themselves, and the same exact ______ they own”.



The problem is the newbie identifying realistically the type of paddler they might be, and the advice giver also recognizing the type of paddler they personally are, as well as recognizing and appreciating other types.



If I look at the thread about casual day touring on lakes and estuaries, I have no idea what to recommend. The OP is pointing a type of kayak out (based upon what - price point, looks nice, size, room, perceived performance or something else? - who knows?), so a person could recommend the best in that range of kayaks. But for casual day touring on lakes and estuaries, I would want an efficient sea kayak at around 4 knots. Someone else may want a surf ski. I think the most important information is the energy level that a person brings to whatever physical outdoor activities that they currently do, and then what about paddling turns them on. That really defines how and where they will end up enjoying paddling, more than where they think they might like to paddle defines the type of boat they will be happy with. To me, “What kind of things do you do for fun?” will end up much more informative than “Where do you plan to paddle?” Everyone around my area would answer that they think it would be fun to paddle in the ocean. But if their typical activities don’t include physical exersion or outdoors in the elements or anything sounding like physical sports, it is incredibly unlikely that they are going to end up ocean paddlers. It sounds nice, but they just don’t realize what it takes yet.



What type of paddler are you, what do you use, and what would you like to use, can be some pretty good information compiled from several people.

Pretty Cynical
There are a dozen or so people here who give pretty good advice. Most of the time when people are asking for recommendations it’s for entry level gear, which most of the experienced paddlers have little or no interest in.


This thread may run and run,
The OP’s post is perhaps a bit negative but has a grain or two of truth. Unless someone has had particular experience (e.g.,working in the paddling industry or at an out-fitters, or was a member of a club with access to many different models of kayak or canoe), their ability to comment on the relative advantages and flaws of a wide range boats is probably quite limited. The rest of us can however say something about the boats we paddle/own. If we limit our comments to subjects we have direct experience of, and give some indication of the limits of our knowledge, then probably this is OK. Right?

Rubbish
I just recommended a boat I have paddled and never want own.



While it is a lousy boat for me, it might suit the asker’s needs perfectly.


Take an INTRO class
If someone truly wants to learn

they’ll take an into to kayaking class

from a local community pool site fall/winter months.



Asking in a forum is just like talk radio

  • you filter what you want to want or don’t want to hear

good example…
For most I like your advice. But it shows bias like we all have. It assumes there’s a source of lessons near. The fall/winter in a pool part assumes a cool winter area. All of it assumes someone wanting more than to sit still fishing in a pond from a kayak or canoe. I fall into that trap all the time even as I try not to.

Y’know…
It is near impossible to make a good recommendation when someone doesn’t provide info about their likely paddling locale, background or area of the country at least - like is it the Florida Keys or Calais Maine… like the OPer here.

Most don’t write reviews.
Some regulars on this board have never written a review, even though they may own 20 boats.

Hey, I have both of those
plus 14 more kayaks and canoes.

but would really like a Pro boat!



Guy

Good point
I agree it would be good if the long-time posters and compulsive boat hoarders here would review their fleet.



Most reviews by complete novices are pretty useless. My all time favorite went something like this:



“I ordered a boat on the internet and just received it today. I haven’t been in the water, but it’s beautiful and I got it at a steep discount from a really nice seller - I know it’s going to be great! 10/10”

Back to the regular posts…
If someone reads the posts asking about ideas for a new boat, or a step-up boat, long timers often do talk well about the boats they own. But it is hard to do that outside of a context.



For example, I have recommended that new paddlers look at the mid-length transition boats at times, and go used, because what they wanted to do with the boat is still quite unformed. But on the same day someone can ask about a boat for a size of paddler and usage that I know - like my own. For them I can talk well about the boats in our fleet, behaviors on the water etc.



I don’t see how someone could replicate that in reviews without being pretty thorough about how they used the boat and their own paddling. That’s more than most (including me) would bother to do.

Moi

– Last Updated: Oct-01-12 6:29 PM EST –

yep. Much of my fleet is out of production or custom.

You wont find a Swift Heron or Wenonah Odyssey or LoonWorks boats (three) at your local dealer. I have the only Colden DragonFly ever made. Its not at your local store either. Neither is my Curtis Nomad.

The other boats all have reviews. It seems pointless to babble on about boats that already have reviews unless I thought some of the reviews were from left field.

I have paddled about a hundred different boats. Some of those paddles were just long enough to say UGH without overtly analyzing why. Any review would be kind of shallow.

I second Kayamedic’s “rubbish”.

– Last Updated: Oct-01-12 6:29 PM EST –

The vast majority of the reviews aren't very helpful. Seems like an awful lot of them have been written by noobs shortly after purchasing their first boat. Read through the Coleman and Pelican canoe reviews and you'll see what I mean. You have to read reviews with a very discerning eye.

Answers to posted questions, OTOH, can be very detailed and focused. A conversation of sorts can be had - and I found that much more helpful when I was just getting into the sport.

And, BTW - I see a lot of active posters here that will let you know up-front whether they have actually owned or paddled the boat they are talking about, and how it was used. It just takes a little patient reading and common sense to determine who here is giving out the good info.

And my beef with fishermen
Many, many fisherman can’t paddle worth

a hoot and a holler and often get into “trouble”.

As was mine…
Jon

Sooooo
What kind of boat are you looking for???

pro
guy you would really enjoy a pro boat they are great just sold mine not much racing in s c

Are you considering context?

– Last Updated: Oct-01-12 9:58 PM EST –

I suppose I should preface my remarks by saying newbies often ask inappropriate questions, so the first thing advice-givers need to do is force them to focus on particular goals. I myself pay a lot more attention to the questions of people who have a fair idea what their needs are, and I'm not the only one. What follows mostly applies to that kind of situation.

You say ...

"However, 95% of posters will recommend what they want for themselves, and it will be the same exact ______ they own."

... and I am certainly guilty of this, but if you read one of my posts where I did such a thing and used that as evidence to support your current premise, you'd be worse than wrong.

One reason I can recommend one of my boats to someone is that I know how they handle, and I know what they can do, but I can only do this if I know what the person is looking for. If a person asks a question that is specific enough that I know what their needs are (paddler size, gear load, type of water, desired traits for boat-handling), and if those criteria can be met by a boat I'm familiar with (one that I own or used to own), then yes, I will recommend it, or more accurately, I will present it as a good, viable option (without discounting options I know less about).

It would be silly to recommend a boat I haven't paddled. There are a lot of very good solo canoes out there which I have not recommended even in cases where I suspected they'd have been a good choice. I leave it to others, the ones who've used those boats, to recommend them and provide the reasons why.

And speaking of "the reasons why", anyone giving good advice will provide "the reasons why" a particular boat is a good match to a particular set of handling traits. If they don't do that, what good is the advice? I have a hunch you are missing the most important parts of the advice posts if you can say what you did without feeling like your premise is a quite a bit of a stretch. Granted, I don't read the kayak advice very much so maybe you are correct in that department, but overall, the advice I've paid attention to is usually accompanied by information that will allow the question-asker to figure out the applicability to their situation.

When it comes to gear other than boats, I've noticed that people tend to say less about the particulars, but then, the people asking the questions often leave a lot to be desired when it comes to saying what they need and why, so it goes both ways.