New Tiderace Boats Coming

probably the best bet…
…for you among TR “play n’ day” boats is going to be the Xcite.

KayakAcademy says it best fits ppl up to about 6’3" and 240 lbs.



The Xtra and Xtreme seem meant for paddlers a bit smaller/lighter than that.



The Xplore-X and Xcape-X are for REALLY big paddlers, but are also lower-rocker touring/expedition boats, i.e. not what you said you wanted.



I’m sure some others will chime in here.

Now I am confused
I was OK until I actually read the whole thread, then got confounded. I just checked out the kilograms/pounds cited for the Xtra as in smaller one on Tiderace’s site, and got a minimum weight of 155 pounds up to more. So this is an average (before the obesity epidemic) paddler weight boat, not a 5’3" not-heavy woman.



So I see a bunch of new boats, but unless I am missing something the Tiderace lineup has not added any new hulls rated for the 115 to 135 pound paddler range, where many women fit. (I’ll take a leap and assume that cockpit fit and deck height will tend to follow the volume, didn’t look for those specs.)



Or am I missing a boat in there? I could be…

xplore_S, xcite_S
both awesome boats for small people



xtra (in new LV) is still going to be bigger in that it needs the xtra volume for surfing. surfing requires volume to float the kayak and start it planing and carving. I would give them a try.

Granted the Xtra is closer
At least a lot closer than the regular Xplore or Xcite, which I am aware of. But I thought it interesting that this smaller end of the paddler population isn’t covered well, yet anyway, in the new series. That may mean that another boat will join the new lineup (or that Tiderace doesn’t see a market there).

the point
that Keith is making - a boat intended for surfing must have a certain hull profile for more efficient planing out

That said - I am really happy to see that “LV” in the lineup - I am just a little under the design weight :wink:

I get that part

– Last Updated: Oct-03-12 12:51 PM EST –

I understand that a surfing hull can use a little buoyancy than for other purposes. If that wasn't the case I'd have been hard pressed to manage a clearly over volume boat for me like the Explorer, LV cockpit or not, in surf.

I was wondering what I asked, if there was a boat one size down in the new lineup, since that is something that we are seeing from some other manufacturers. It would be cool if Tiderace were thinking of going in that direction, given the quality of their build and my already-existing affinity for the design ethic of Aled Williams.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

not Xtra
But, TR seems to have a good handle on the market, I wouldn’t put my money against it, since, as Keith said, -S are there.

Frankly, I am a little chafed how boat manufacturers do not advertise their upcoming models.

not to mention Xcape-S
Kayak Academy has that one as being best for paddlers 5’1" to 5’7", and 110 to 165 lbs.



Their numbers for the Xcite-S are very similar to that, but according to them the Xplore-S runs a bit bigger, allegedly best for ppl 5’4" to 5’10" and 130 to 170 lbs.



They don’t have numbers for the new ‘Xtra LV’ (which will just be the new ‘Xtra’), but considering that the ‘Xtra HV’ (what used to be called the ‘Xtra’) is allegedly good for ppl as small as 5’4" and 140 lbs (again, KA’s numbers), it’s hard to imagine that the new ‘LV’ wouldn’t be good fit for the fairly petite paddler.


small person’s play boat
Sterling’s new boat the Progression is built as a Reflection for smaller people. Still in prototype I believe, but it looks promising from the videos Reg Lake posted. I’ve owned a Reflection for 6 months now and it’s a great play boat.

The green boat in the vid is the progression. The location is Skook of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UgnmXODNMA&feature=g-user-u

Marius
Drink beer

Eat chips, and I’ll get you an xtra

Current Xtra

– Last Updated: Oct-03-12 10:40 PM EST –

Just looked - 13.5 inch depth in the current one is the kind of depth that works for me but.... not a fit that I would pay a new fiberglass boat for at this point in my life KA's opinion aside.

Now if an LV version of that boat is coming, yes it would likely fit into my size. Did I see that in the announcements above or is it wishful thinking? I am quite losing track.

The Xcape is a good shot at more of a tracker - a boat worth looking at but a very different purpose than the Xtra.

Two new Xtras

– Last Updated: Oct-03-12 7:13 PM EST –

Hey Celia,

Yes, a new 'Xtra LV' is coming, but they're just going to call it the Xtra, and the current Xtra becomes the 'Xtra HV'. It's a little bit odd and confusing, but I guess TR figured it was more 'accurate' to do it that way.

The 'new Xtra' (i.e. 'LV but we're not calling it that') has a deck height of 12". The 'old Xtra' (now called HV) has a deck height of 12.8", not the 13.5" you stated (though I think they did reduce it by 0.4" from 2012).

The other new Xtra is the rotomold one, the Vortex. Like the 'LV' it as a 12" deck height. Looking at total volume and cockpit volume, it seems very much like a plastic version of the 'LV' rather than the HV.

Got that by converting web site cm
Unless I copied the cm over wrong. But it wouldn’t be the first time a kayak manufacturer had less than easy to sort out info, or out of date, on a web site.

funny
I’ll just put that SS thermos and a bag of biscuits in my kit and be good to go :wink:

Let me know when you or Ryan get some for demoing.

no doubt
Yeah, absolutely. I don’t know what it is about kayaking manufacturers, but many of them seem somewhat ‘website-challenged.’


Yes, this is very evident …
That you “… worked for Tiderace …”.



“The move to Thailand was motivated entirely by quality…”



Well, there’s always a first time.



“… Charger Composites to do a mediocre job building Tiderace boats…”



Why is that, do you think?



“This is Cobra who work to International ISO Standards …”.



Good things, yes … but also voluntary, self-reported, and non enforceable. Cobra may very well adhere to all ISO standards. But there’s more to it than that, and it is not unheard of for large well respected companies to outsource to 3rd parties and take at face value their claims of adherence to all kinds of standards and regulations … and at the same time not look too closely or peel back the covers so they can have a clear conscience. Now, before you blow a gasket, I’m not saying Tiderace did that, or Cobra is anything less than it seems. Just making an observation.



Did Tiderace send their own people … relocate their QC senior person or two, with their families, to Thailand? Set up an office inside Cobra’s facility, to oversea and inspect?



“Frankly, to talk about them as if they are some environment-killing bucket shop is ignorant behaviour.”



By definition, the only ignorance I can see here is coming from you … jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.



But I understand I think where that comes from: it’s a defensive response that must now be second nature to you and perhaps others at Tiderace when anyone asks a simple questions about where your boats are made, or why. My sense is somewhere deep down you may not be proud of the decision, or the place.



Since you brought it up, Thailand is in many areas physically a paradise … but unfortunately most of the people native to that country are not in a position to enjoy that aspect. A simple search on drugs, corruption, human rights issues, etc, reveals many stories like this:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/28/us-thailand-corruption-idUSTRE68R0RZ20100928



Now, sit down … don’t smash your computer … take a deep breath. I’m sure Cobra is a model manufacturer over there.



All I’m saying is this is a very low cost market to produce anything, and the reason is at the expense of actual enforcement of regulations and standards in the EU, USA, etc, that drive up costs to make many products. Those added expenses have nothing to do with quality, except that it may force manufacturers that hang around to source cheaper costing materials.



I have never seen a Tiderace boat, so I can’t speak to quality. But are you seriously saying it is a better made boat that my Valley? Or any other well crafted high quality out there? Please …



At best Tiderace is as good as, which says a lot, because these boats are as good as it gets.



Personally, I would (and have) gladly pay more for a quality product made locally, or in a country I feel better about when it comes to having factories where workers are treated humanely, have benefits, some protection from abuse, etc.



Now there you go … sit back down … you’re not going to live long if can’t keep your blood pressure down. Again, I’m not saying Cobra is anything less than a model factory that could operate the exact same way it does in Thailand as it would have to in England or the US.



I am merely pointing out that you seem rather defensive about where Tiderace makes their boats, and seem to feel some need to justify this with superiority claims regarding the quality against all other boats, and perhaps spin a fairytale story of a poor beleaguered company that, try as it might, just can’t find anyone that do justice to manufacturing their design … until the heavens part and a great shaft of golden light beams down on Cobra … altruistically motivated purely by QC and not profits …


Xtra Depth
On the Tiderace website in the Kayak Models part of the website it says the depth is 33.5 cm. On their homepage with the link to the new models that show both Xtra’s the HV is stated at 32.5. All volumes remain the same so their appears to be an error somewhere obviously. As another reference point the Kayak Academy website shows 13.2" which is in line with the original 33.5 cm on the Tiderace website.

yup, my point exactly

Dang…
…pretty much lighting his hair on fire. =0



PNet is a ROUGH place.


erm…
Throughout the setup phase Tiderace’s MD Dave Felton and/or Designer Aled Williams personally inspected every single boat before it left the factory.



And yes, Tiderace boats are built to a higher specification than Valley, PandH or SKUK and so on. That reflects in the price point and the number of boats sold, but it’s a conscious decision. As a manufacturer, we also had a retail operation that sold boats by Valley and PandH, so we had plenty of exposure to their product.



As for being defensive, I have no need to be defensive at all. I (and many dealers/customers of Tiderace’s) know full well the quality that is produced and the move to Thailand was a huge leap in quality but not necessarily one that improved costs.



If people want to remain ignorant or make accusations that are unfounded, that is up to them.