Tips for Noob in a Sea Kayak?

Boat Balance
I prefer the way my boat behaves after I moved the seat back. I like the bow to ride over waves rather than punch into them. If you don’t like it, put a bottle of water in your forward hatch.

Test the seat position -
lossen your back band an inch and scooch your butt back an inch an see how it feels.

.
I can’t be on the water all the time, so it’s nice to DISCUSS this stuff here. :slight_smile:



I’m going to head out either this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon, and I’ll take the Tempest. I have some welding to do on that rack I bought last night before it’ll carry anything.



I wanted to take the Tempest to the rescue class, but they don’t allow it since it’s in a pool; you have to use theirs. I’ll try to get a smaller model to practice in if possible.



I’m surprised nobody has made a seat slider mechanism for a kayak yet… just like they have in cars. It’s not like it’d weigh much, I figure half a pound.



Anyway… I’m enjoying the testing out of the various boats, and I appreciate all the feedback!



Rob

Slider seats in kayaks

– Last Updated: Oct-09-12 10:38 PM EST –

Might even exist for racing, as I recall they can be found in some pack canoes. But in both of these cases the assumption is that the paddler is going to be fairly unlikely to be throwing deep braces or rolls for the hell of it, or playing in rock gardens.... places where a slider seat would not be helpful, could be a real problem.

If you are talking about the ability to move the seat between fixed positions, that all happens from the top as you will be doing. (oops, I may be wrong there. See next reply.)

As to using the Tempest - have you told them what boat you have? Sometimes those rules, at least if you are talking about outside use, are there because they don't want people bringing inappropriately outfitted rec boats into a sea kayaking class. They may be fine with your bringing in a boat like the Tempest as long as they have a couple of minutes to make sure all the parts are properly attached, like perimeter line, before the class.

Pool sessions are another matter - between pool rules and space it is more usual than not to be restricted to the boats that are already provided. But outside classes are usually more about the setup of the boat.

Confluence seat attachments
As previously noted, the Tempest has a set of holes in the seat pan, for attachment. I recently got a Wavesport WW boat, sister brand to Wilderness Systems. Similar seat pan. Only difference in attachment is that the seat pan is slotted, and, instead of individual nuts, there’s a single, threaded backer plate to accomodate both machine screws. So, it’s easy to adjust, with just a Phillips screwdriver. Loosen --> slide seat --> tighten. So, they could make it that easy on the sea kayaks, but just don’t see it as necessary.

Pool


Yeah they know what kind of boat it is. It has to do with cleanliness. They have a separate batch of boats specifically for the pool, that never go in the river.



They said I would be welcome to do the class in it if it were in the river, but those classes won’t be offered again until next Summer when the water warms back up.



So I’ll just ask them to put me in a small one if possible.



Rob

Try this
I have to apologize - I read the above post a little too quickly and missed full attention to the pool part. Just tell them you want a fit that will be closer to that of you in the Tempest 165 than something bigger. Really, gravity does work upside down.



I strongly suggest that you pick up nose plugs and/or full goggles. There tend to be two new discoveries when you are upside down in a boat, a spot that they may ask you to stay in for a count of 5 or 10 just to make sure you are staying calm. (and being able to do that is a pre-req for rolling anyway) One is that water comes into your nose upside down in ways it never does in normal swimming, and the other is that pool water hurts some people like the dickens when it gets well up their sinuses. If you are one of those people (like me) it can really mess up an otherwise fun evening of getting wet.

plugs
Good idea; I will get nose plugs.



Until I get in the water and see what the chlorine content is, I won’t know how much it’ll affect me. I grew up swimming in chlorinated pools so I got used to it, having my eyes open underwater, etc. Not gonna be the case in the ocean (salt) but in the pool, it’ll do.



In time I’ll have to get used to not having nose plugs though, since you never really know when you’re going under… not exactly time to stop and put them in. :slight_smile:



I’m heading out tomorrow after lunch… taking the Tempest out this time. Will report back when I return.



Rob

Use of nose plugs
It is always good if you can get used to the sinus hit without them, but I wouldn’t discard them. In salt water, they tend not to be needed anyway. Salt water is automatically kinder and more natural feeling up in there anyway. The only time I have used nose plugs in salt water was when I was being asked to do something like alter my approach to bracing, when I was just getting a ton of closely spaced rolling moments until I got it down. There is a point of just having so much water and discharge running out of your nose every time you come up it is annoying.



Fresh water is another matter, and in WW groups you will often see people going thru rapids with nose plugs on. But WW runs tend to organize themselves so that it is reasonable to pop on a set of nose plugs before a given rapid. That’s why you will sometimes see them attached to a helmet.



The salt water rush when you capsize in surf was, for me, very distracting at first because the first rush is so strong. But it is still salt water, so it is tolerable if you can hold off thru that initial hit to get your moment to roll.

boat choice
For initial pool sessions I wouldn’t worry about using a boat similar to the one you own. Find one in which you have a fairly snug fit.



When you initially get in a snug-fitting boat it may feel like you will have difficulty getting out of it upside down. I think you will find that when you are inverted, pop the skirt and everything is wet, you will be able to slide out just fine. The water lubricates everything and gravity is more or less working in your favor or is not a factor, since you will be essentially weightless in the water.



A snug fit will allow your lower body movements to be more effectively translated to the boat for bracing, rolling, and bow rescues. Once you have worked on these in the pool, you will be more comfortable doing the same with your boat in protected, outdoor waters.

masks are great for lots of practice
I use nose plugs for casual practice and nothing for combat rolls. But if doing lots of rolling like in a class a mask is very nice. nose plugs slip off and eyes can burn a bit after lots of dunkings. A dive type mask won’t slip off the nose and gives you crystal clear vision to help you stay relaxed and do things like follow a blade while rolling.

damn you done good so far…

– Last Updated: Oct-12-12 11:17 AM EST –

You started off well. Nice purchase!

I'd echo what jay posted: wear your pfd. And learn a wet exit ASAP - if the water's cold and you have the right protection, you'll be fine - maybe splash some cold water on the back of your neck to minimize the shock.

After a wet exit I'd do what Hutchinson recommended and learn to be comfortable upside-down in your boat. wear a mask and noseplugs, use a snorkel with an extension if necessary - whatever it takes to gain that comfort. That will help you with rolls.

Next I'd learn a good forward stroke and commit it to memory.

Next I'd just get out and paddle often which sounds like it won't be a problem! Then you're on to either lessons or instruction regarding edging, low and high bracing, rolls, corrective strokes and so on. You'll need all of these to get out in unprotected water but if you have the desire you'll do it.

You sound just like me when I went from a rec kayak to sea kayaking, except you gave yourself a better start with gear.

Rescue!
I just got home a little while ago from my Rescue Class. It was held in a fitness club’s heated pool, which is great, since the water temps in the Willamette River this time a year are probably lower 50’s by now.



The boats they used are all the same… Custom Designs plastic boats, and from what I can tell, they’re right in between my Tempest 165 and Essence 17 in terms of size/volume. They were 13-14’ boats, since there’s only so much room in the pool.



At the other end of the pool was the rescue class. They used the same boats too, so I know what I’ll be in two weekends from now when I have that class.



Anyway… I picked up nose plugs, which are a good thing. They don’t stay on well, but that’s okay. They protect the initial sinus drenching. I wore mine the first two times, then forgot them the third time and that wasn’t terribly pleasant. So I stuck with them for subsequent dunkings.



Wet exits are pretty straight forward. It does feel a little odd being upside down, but I have no trouble reaching the “ejection strap” as I call it. The main thing was learning to relax and do what I needed to do rather than being in a rush to get out.



During one rescue attempt (when I was the rescuer), due to a poor hold on the other boat, I ended up going over. What’s interesting is that I capsized while leaning backward. So it took a moment to realize I had to bend forward and grab the strap to get out, since my initial reaction was surprise, especially when I didn’t come right out. That was a good thing to experience in a controlled environment, especially since it was unplanned and without nose plugs.



I was really glad to get experience with the self-rescues, since I will be paddling alone most of the time, up until I get into ocean paddling sometime next Summer. I liked the paddle float method best. She taught us the cowboy method too, but I wouldn’t attempt it unless it was an emergency or warm weather (and in flatwater), because it’s waaaay too much work/exhausting to have to do more than once.



And, while it may not be as comfortable, it’s best to have your PFD snugged up as much as you can stand it before you go in the water. It makes all the difference when you’re all wet and bobbing about. :slight_smile:



Tomorrow, unless the weather totally sucks, I’m going to see about moving the seat in the Tempest back a little bit. I think that’ll do the trick. The Custom Designs boat I was in today actually had a fore/aft seat adjustment!! So yeah, time to do that, get used to the Tempest, and sell off the other one, and use the money to buy a dry suit. This wet suit crap isn’t gonna cut it for winter paddling. :slight_smile:



Rob


Hood, gloves and a big jacket or cag too
Extremities tend to be a problem, and when you do need to stop in cold weather you’ll want to add a layer.



I would suggest that you take a little more time messing with the cowboy if you have it. The Tempest is a friendly boat for that, and once you are in cold water you run into the issue of hands that start to get uncooperative. The cowboy, once mastered, is less dependent on having all the fingers working well than messing with a paddle float.



Sounds like you had a good time.

cowboy


That’s a good point. I’ll have to try it with the Tempest when I can. I’m not going to willingly dump in the cold water (at least not until I have a dry suit), so it’ll have to wait til warmer weather, or if I somehow manage to get it into a pool.



Now, that being said, if I do happen to go over on my own, I now will probably try the cowboy at least once just to get the heck out of the cold water quickly. :slight_smile:



The boats we used there in the pool seemed very tippy. VERY easy to capsize, and very easy to tip 'em over when climbing back in. I don’t recall my two boats have much better initial stability.



BTW, I wrote a blog post about both of my classes… they’re up here: http://robgadv.wordpress.com with more detail than I posted here. Even some photos.



Rob

Bow rescue
What you term an “assisted roll” in your blog is more widely known as a bow rescue or “Eskimo rescue”.

heel hook

– Last Updated: Oct-15-12 2:30 PM EST –

nice blog report. Like many, you found the heel hook difficult but with just a bit of practice it actually takes less physical effort. I learned to use the outside and not inside leg in the cockpit first. I think it's easier that way. The key is to elongate your body by reaching for your rescuer's boat near the stern of your boat. This avoid the butt hanging far out requiring more effort for you and torquing the boat more for the rescuer -- you want your body more flush with your boat as you roll in. The heel hook rescue is especially good for anyone that is either weak upper body or large upper body.

Tippiness

– Last Updated: Oct-15-12 4:01 PM EST –

EVERYONE recapsizes a lot when they are first learning self-rescues, in just about all of the rescues. Balance has to be learned.

Re the Cowboy, getting over the back of the boat gets fairly simple in a kayak like the Tempest once you get your balance down enough that you can start well to the back of the boat. The further back you are, the easier it is to get over the boat because you can actually push it under you.

The downside of this is that, the further back you go to make it easy to get securely over the boat, the further you have to go without capsizing to make it into the cockpit. Hence the reason I have said that lower decked boats are better in this regard - lower center of gravity, closer to the water, you have a little more head room before you are swimming again.

There is a basic trick that you really should experiment with when the water temps and your clothing agree. That is to take the boat into fairly shallow water, so that you aren't killing yourself dumping out the water after every capsize, and literally climb around on the top of the boat. Stern to bow, sit up on the deck, turn around while sitting up, learn to use your paddle to help as a slight outrigger without a paddle float on it... once you can manage this all of the self-rescues get much easier.

I haven't looked at your blog yet, but you should also start to use the correct terms for things. Otherwise you will get a lot of terribly misdirected advice.

cowboys
I’ve found you need to experiment and find the one spot that is best for you in your boat to climb up. As said further back is less effort but more balance so you need to find the happy medium for you. The higher the deck the further back you may need to go, but further back is both more tippy and requires a longer journey to the cock pit. Personally I like to come up as far back as possible and yet still just being able to reach the cockpit with my hand. This way once on the deck my hand on the cockpit helps me start working forward. The other key is to get the hang of getting your belly button over the deck in one move then turn and keep moving to the cockpit – this require practice to make that first push is just big enough without throwing yourself over the far side (a bit more rare). Experiment and learn where on the boat and how big a lunge to first make. For many I would also suggest using the paddle float but try to put less and less pressure on the paddle. Eventually many paddlers don’t even bother bringing the paddle float.

The Absolute Best
self rescue is a roll. The second best is a re-enter and roll. The best way to avoid needing a rescue is a strong, reliable brace. Learn those things early on. After awhile they aren’t just skills but a lot of fun.