New to Canoeing - Advice on Aluminum?

I have no experience in canoeing but am looking to purchase my first one before Spring. The only advice I have gotten so far is from a friend of a friend who I would call a pro - he’s canoed on several continents and published a book. So I am not sure if his recommendations are over-engineered for my needs.



I am seeing lots of canoes on Craigslist with aluminum being the most affordable. My question is, are these a good choice given the following background info:

  • I live in the Ozarks and will be using it mostly in Osage River/Lake of the Ozarks drainage area, the Niangua and Gasconade headwaters are a few minutes from town.
  • I work at a full line aluminum boat manufacturer who used to make canoes, some of which are the ones I see on CL, so I have quick and cheap access to any materials, fabrication, etc.
  • Work also gives me access to materials and knowledge for deadening sound in an aluminum hull.
  • I mainly want it for wilderness trips and to gain access to hunting areas. I don’t fish too much, and if I’m in shallow water/streams I would prefer to wade out.
  • I’m not worried about weight for loading, I’m still youngish and most of my friends and I were athletes in college. A little extra exertion to move through the water isn’t a bad thing either as long as I can keep up, I could use the exercise.

    -I’m a cheapskate until A) I know I enjoy and will use something then I will spend real money or B) I will lay out a little extra cash for a higher end product if it lowers cost of ownership but not going to drop $2k.



    Would an aluminum canoe be right for me to begin with? Or do the cons on the water, for the way I will use it, outweigh the price and maintenance advantages? I trust my friends for advice, but I always like to have some independent info.

I think it’ll be okay for you.

– Last Updated: Oct-22-12 2:15 PM EST –

One nice thing about used boats is that you can usually get a 100-percent return on your purchase price if or when you decide to re-sell the thing. If it gets you on the water and you already are planning that you'll upgrade IF you get bitten by the paddling bug, it sounds like a reasonable choice to me.

I bet your "professional" friend has already given you a list of reasons not to get aluminum. As I see your situation, the reason at the top of the list might be the way aluminum "sticks" to rocks. However, if you take the learning of paddling skills somewhat seriously, it won't be long until you are hitting far fewer rocks than rental boaters and very casual paddlers. Paddle a year or two with improvement in mind and you'll be avoiding even more of them, but you'll still hit a rock now and then, and when you do your boat will often stop dead in the water. When you "upgrade" to another hull material, you'll appreciate sliding over the rocks instead.

If you find two boats that are a pretty equal match in design and cost, with one being polyethylene and the other aluminum, the odds are really good that the poly boat is badly warped, because finding a used one that isn't warped is pretty rare. A warped poly boat may paddle "well enough" in the short term, just as is true of aluminum. Find the same match between aluminum and Royalex, and I'd tend to go with Royalex. But if aluminum is what gets you started most conveniently, go for it.

Friends…

– Last Updated: Oct-22-12 2:47 PM EST –

"Friends don't let friends paddle aluminum".

Frank, I seriously doubt that you live more than an hour, or hour & a half from my house.
I would be happy to show you a variety of solo canoes, in varied lengths, and let you test paddle some of them.

If interested, contact me by PM.

BOB

P.S. Yes, I have owned & paddled aluminum canoes.
My advice: If you chose to buy an aluminum canoe; buy a cheap, used one, instead of a new one.
I have purchased at least 25 Royalex, kevlar, or fiberglass, solo or tandem canoes, in very good to like new condition, for less than the price of a new Osagian.

x2

– Last Updated: Oct-22-12 3:29 PM EST –

I second what guideboat said. Aluminum is, obviously, not a first choice hull material for the avid canoeist, however if it is your first boat, you have a limited budget, or want a durable/minimal maintenance hull, Aluminum boats often work fine. Their main drawbacks are the typical 80+lbs weight and (my non scientific opinion) that the hulls have less engineering in them. By that I mean I dont think the typical Grumman or Alumacraft has consulted much with respected designers like Kruger, Jensen, or Bell for their hull design. That said, I have paddled alumacraft canoes up until recently and think they work well for what they're designed to do for and they're cheap.

I have watched canoes all season on craigslist and seen a few grumman's go for $300 in good condition, so thats hard to beat if you're just looking for a cheap boat to get you on the water. And like GBG said, you can probably resell that $300-500 boat for the same you paid in a year or 2.

On the other hand, if you're patient, look often, and are lucky enough to catch a great deal in time: I saw a Rx Spirit II for $600, a Tuff weave Spirit II for $600, a MNII Kevlar UL for $650 all in good/great condition on craigslist this year. All those are less than 30% of original MSRP, so if you can wait you can find smokin good deals on intermediate/top end boats too.

So all in all, you can buy an aluminum boat, use it, see if paddling is your thing, and sell it if you lose interest or want a nicer boat, with little or no downside, so why not? If you think you'll be into canoeing you can watch CL and find a good deal on a nicer boat too.

Might take you up on that
Not sure where you are at, I am in Webster County and most of my time is spend between here and Camden County.



What I am seeing is 16-18’ tandem aluminum for $250-400 on Springfield and LOZ Craigslist, 14’-15’ solo are around twice that, and didn’t see anything explicitly say Royalex. I buy a lot of used vehicles on Craigslist and know the dangers (especially around here!) so I feel more comfortable with aluminum if I go that route but keeping my options open as that’s not the only place to buy things.

Aluminum
I wouldn’t buy a new one any more, as they aren’t great at anything.



I would jump on a 17’ Grumman for $400 or so, though. They last forever, can be fixed, can be treated very roughly, and are the lowest-maintenance boats on the market. They tend to be stable and predictable.



I agree with GBG in that used poly just isn’t worth it unless it is very cheap and you really really need to hit a bunch of rocks.



Used Royalex and Kevlar usually is a good deal, but starting with aluminum and then finding what you like makes sense (and a Minnesota2 is a very different boat than an Esquif Canyon)

Aluminum is OK
I tripped for 20 years in one…but the hull grabs every rock it can; rocks that other materials slide over…



Its kind of up to you how much wading you want to do for one bitty annoying rock in the Ozarks…and you have plenty of itty bitty annoying rocks.

A used aluminum would be fine
One of the biggest disadvantages of aluminum is the carry weight. But if you’re young and strong, and not portaging long distances, a used aluminum canoe would be fine as a first canoe. Many of us started that way, even the boat sluts and collectors.



I agree you should look for a used one. They don’t age much and you should be able to find one for a decent price.

Links
I rarely buy new anything, and I look at this like your first motorcycle - get something safe and easy enough to learn on and cheap so you don’t lose too much money when you inevitably do something stupid to it.



As far as wading I meant fishing - I fish from the bank or wade out, I would only fish from a vessel in open water.



Here are the cheap ones that catch my eye on the local craigslist. I know they are pretty ugly, but that’s what I like - restoring vehicles is my first hobby.



http://springfield.craigslist.org/boa/3293226987.html

http://springfield.craigslist.org/boa/3327206899.html

http://springfield.craigslist.org/boa/3289997656.html

http://springfield.craigslist.org/spo/3288006240.html



That last one catches my eye in particular. I guess my decision now comes down to which one will carry all my gear and not be too big of a slug on the rocks? Not in a rush, but if the right one comes along I will pick it up before Spring.

A good aluminum canoe is great.
they are not fast, but are all a all around boat.



Guy

Two of the first three are damaged
only the last one seems to be the most OK. One has been folded. Alu thwarts do not fold that easily. One is hogged. You dont want that either.

The Osag is a winner!
I’ve paddled one a few times, and it is a good aluminum canoe with a strong build. Will last and last.

Number 2
Number 2 is an old lightweight Grumman. The rear thwart is bent down, but the gunwales are clean; no kinks, a smooth radius from front to back on both sides. Can’t believe this canoe was wrapped or broached. Ribs are hard to see in the photo, but no shadows of a broken one. Not many showing, which indicates its a lightweight. The bent thwart could be from someone stepping on it or a drop in storage. Easy to replace. The oval serial number plate on the front deck and just barely visible Grumman decal on the bow date the canoe. I could not make out the stamped “G” on the end tanks, which would confirm to me that it was a genuine Grumman.

Good deal at price, good starter canoe which later becomes your ‘loaner’ canoe. Grummans are the canoe that you can survive loaning to your relatives and keep your good Kevlar Wenonah safe at home. And when the stream is low and you still want to paddle you take the Grumman.

More first descents of wilderness rivers were made after WWII in Grumman aluminum canoes than any other type of canoe. There are better canoes now for almost any purpose, but good aluminum canoes still can get the job done.

Bill

Lots of drawbacks…
to aluminum canoes on Ozark streams. For one thing, it can’t be stressed enough that aluminum grabs rocks, and even gravel and logs. You won’t slide over anything you’ll find on an Ozark stream very well in an aluminum canoe. And unless you confine yourself to the Niangua below Bennett Spring and the lower Gasconade, you WILL be scraping over shallow riffles a lot. Of course, aluminum is also extremely durable…you can scrape over a lot of miles of shallow riffles without a lot of damage, while doing the same with any kind of plastic boat will have you putting on skid plates pretty quickly. But on the other other hand, all that scraping bottom is NOISY in aluminum.



One other drawback to aluminum that always bothered me when I owned one, and I used aluminum canoes exclusively for 15 years or so…the gunwales and other exposed aluminum parts get HOT in summer sunshine. Hot enough to burn bare legs sometimes. And if you do any cold season paddling, aluminum also gets very cold. You’ll stick to it in freezing weather!



But…your aluminum canoe will be serviceable, and get you on the water reasonably cheaply, and it’ll last a LONG time.

My experience
I have tripped hundreds of miles in alumunum canoes as a scout leader. Here’s my experience;all brands of aluminum canoes are not equal-some perform more poorly in the water and some have less tough,weaker softer metal. Also the performance difference between 15’ and 17’ seems greater than other canoes. Avoud ones with a promenant keel. Grumans are among the best in toughness and performance,but the liteweight Grummans are fragile-I have been on 2 trips where they were holed,never a standard weight other than a previously bent thwart that broke. Once bent or dented,they are never the same after being bent back in shape,always a weak spot there so i would avoid one with old damage. Aluminum canoes have a lot of virtues,but personally,other than to sit in the sun for years next to my pond,not for me.

Turtle

Al canoes
Any boat is way ahead of not owning a canoe. They were the rage in after WWII. The serious drawbacks are that they can’t be formed into complex shapes, they are heavy and definitely stick to rocks.



On the otherhand you can leave one outside in a snow bank with little effect. They are durable, used ones are cheap, and it takes a good wrap to ruin one. Find a Grumman with some length, at least 16 feet so it won’t be so slow, and join the ranks of canoeists instead of wishing you were one. Later use it as a loaner and for rocky low flows. Good luck.

Al canoes
Any boat is way ahead of not owning a canoe. They were the rage in after WWII. The serious drawbacks are that they can’t be formed into complex shapes, they are heavy and definitely stick to rocks.



On the otherhand you can leave one outside in a snow bank with little effect. They are durable, used ones are cheap, and it takes a good wrap to ruin one. Find a Grumman with some length, at least 16 feet so it won’t be so slow, and join the ranks of canoeists instead of wishing you were one. Later use it as a loaner and for rocky low flows. Good luck.

Al canoes
Any boat is way ahead of not owning a canoe. They were the rage in after WWII. The serious drawbacks are that they can’t be formed into complex shapes, they are heavy and definitely stick to rocks.



On the otherhand you can leave one outside in a snow bank with little effect. They are durable, used ones are cheap, and it takes a good wrap to ruin one. Find a Grumman with some length, at least 16 feet so it won’t be so slow, and join the ranks of canoeists instead of wishing you were one. Later use it as a loaner and for rocky low flows. Good luck.

Al canoes
Any boat is way ahead of not owning a canoe. They were the rage in after WWII. The serious drawbacks are that they can’t be formed into complex shapes, they are heavy and definitely stick to rocks.



On the otherhand you can leave one outside in a snow bank with little effect. They are durable, used ones are cheap, and it takes a good wrap to ruin one. Find a Grumman with some length, at least 16 feet so it won’t be so slow, and join the ranks of canoeists instead of wishing you were one. Later use it as a loaner and for rocky low flows. Good luck.

Al canoes
Any boat is way ahead of not owning a canoe. They were the rage in after WWII. The serious drawbacks are that they can’t be formed into complex shapes, they are heavy and definitely stick to rocks.



On the otherhand you can leave one outside in a snow bank with little effect. They are durable, used ones are cheap, and it takes a good wrap to ruin one. Find a Grumman with some length, at least 16 feet so it won’t be so slow, and join the ranks of canoeists instead of wishing you were one. Later use it as a loaner and for rocky low flows. Good luck.