My Ideal Solo canoe?

Curtis Vagabond?
I am definitely not knowledgeable about this, but I thought the Vagabond was similar to a symetrically rockered Kestrel? Finding a used one would be difficult, and probably too heavy for Turtle’s parameters.

Great call Tim
That boat is just what OP asks for…still sorry I sold mine

I don’t think you have met
Turtle…he does have fine paddling skills. I believe he uses quite good paddles by Marc Ornstein and paddles in the Adirondacks. He is like, Matt Bowler, looking for something extremely specific in a hull.



I would have suggested the Vagabond too, but the RapidFire is so close to the waterline shape of the Vag.



And as I have both the RF and the DragonFly and Turtle has either had a RF too and has paddled the DF, we can attest hulls do handle quite differently. So far there is not a cut down DragonFly…nor is there apt to be.



I don’t think that taking a existing Vagabond and replacing the stern thwart with a wider one would work either to give more symmetrical rocker.



I believe the Vagabond plug may have been destroyed.

Give it up, Rich
Just buy a kayak.



Looking for the “perfect canoe” is as futile as searching for the “perfect mate”.

I’m selling my Curtis Vagabond.
It weighs 40 lbs.



I love the handling of the Vagabond - easy tracking, responsive to paddle input and very maneuverable, but it seems a little more work to move along with just me in it than my smaller (shorter) solos seem to be.



I haven’t had it on moving water, but would expect it to be great for that. The bow gunwales are quite flared, which I would expect to aid riding over waves.



I’ve only spent about 30 minutes in a Hemlock Kestrel and that was at least 4 years ago, so I can’t compare the two.



It’s a really tough decision for me to sell my Vagabond, but I don’t do any tripping and My Curtis Lady Bug seems to require less effort for me to keep moving at a moderately fast cruising pace than my Vagabond when doing timed laps around our local small city lake. If I had unlimited space & money, the Vagabond wouldn’t be going anywhere.



I definitely prefer the squared off float tanks in the Curtis & Hemlock boats compared to the rounded off float tanks of the Bell & Placid boats. I feel that if you’re going to have something in the ends of your boat taking up space, they ought to at least have a flat surface to function as a little shelf to rest your spare paddle blade on. Another advantage of the squared off float tanks is that the vertical surface directs any water that’s in the boat out of the boat when you turn it over, rather than under the decks, like the rounded off float tanks do.



The Curtis Vagabond is a great handling boat.

The Rapidfire and Curtis Vagabond
behave quite differently for me. The Vagabond, with the seat high enough for kneeling is WAY, WAY EASIER TO HEEL for turning than the Rapidfire with the medium height seat is.



I’ve owned a Curtis Vagabond for a couple years and paddled a Rapidfire with a medium height seat for about an hour a few days ago and the Rapidfire proved VERY DIFFICULT for me to heel enough to feel like anything that resembled maneuverable, whereas the Vagabond feels very playful and fun to me. If I hadn’t already known that the hulls are reportedly very similar below the waterline, I wouldn’t have guessed they had anything in common besides similar length & width. The different seat heights makes the boats feel completely unrelated to me. YMMV. I would expect the Rapidfire with the kneeling seat to seem like a completely different paddling experience than the Rapifire with the floor mounted seat.



For double blade paddle use, I’d opt for the Rapidfire. It seemed more efficient (less effort) with the double blade paddle than my Vagabond and the gunwales are much narrower in front of the seat than in the Vagabond, which helps with double blade stroke.



For single blade paddle use, there’s no contest, I much, much prefer the Vagabond with the higher seat over the Rapidfire with a much lower seat. The Rapidfire seemed much less fun with the single blade than the Vagabond.



The Rapidfire & Curtis Vagabond feel like completely unrelated boats to me in the configurations that I have paddled them.



Others may have had different experiences in these two boats.






LOL
One year Turtle turned up with one of these I believe



http://grbnewmandesigns.com/peeper.htm



Not many pack canoes in the Midwest eh?

What’s funny about the Peeper?
I think it looks like a nice little canoe.



I’d like to check out the Rambler, also http://grbnewmandesigns.com/rambler.htm



I wasn’t sure that anyone had ever paddled either of these boats, since I don’t think I’ve ever come upon any discussions or reviews for these boats.

Rapidfire turns and high seat

– Last Updated: Nov-07-12 3:39 PM EST –

I paddle a Rapidfire with the highest rail mounted seat I could get Joe to install for me. I wish it were even higher - sometimes I add a gel pad that raises me up even slightly more. There is a vast difference and improvement in performance with a single blade with the high seat compared to when it had the stock medium seat. I always much prefer using a single blade in any canoe, except under the most severe wind and weather conditions when a double is arguably better for many paddlers. But with the high seat I can easily heel it over far to make it break track to turn quite nicely. However without having also paddled a Vagabond I can't really make a fair comparison, which should only be made with comparable seat heights.

I have raced the Rapidfire in the Adirondack 90-miler for several years. Unfortunately (IMO) the class that was created for it requires use of a double blade paddle, not my favorite mode of travel, although granted it is a bit faster than with a single blade. Even so, I can repeatedly easily out maneuver most any other boat when it comes to cranking into fast sharp turns at speed, such as in Brown's Tract (my favorite section of the 90-miler). I owe a lot to the highest seat I can get.

LOL
was regarding the perfect canoe.



GRB is a niche builder. New York State is the current epicenter of fine solo canoes. Dealer networks are limited.

It was a
Savage River Wee Lassie set up for kneeling. lightest kneeling boat by far-15#. Ya I know about the impossible dream. Maybe a “Transformer” canoe that can change shape and dementions? I owned a Kayak for about 3 weeks-my “friend” shows me the picture he took of in it from time to time to keep my humble.

Turtle

Your Kestrel “is a drag in the twistys”?
And it’s set up for kneeling?



That’s a bit of a surprise for me.



My recollection is that Dave Curtis told me over the telephone that the Kestrel and it’s ancestor the Curtis Vagabond behave very similarly and most people wouldn’t notice much difference between the two.



I find my Vagabond to be very maneuverable with just a bit of heel, but I don’t trip with it and usually don’t have a total load over 170 lbs for day paddling and messing around.



Maybe the Kestrel really isn’t as maneuverable as the Vagabond or maybe you just want REALLY maneuverable.

Time for Dr. Phil for Turtle
Let’s cut through the floating bog here.



Turtle knows more about all these canoes than just about anyone here. He doesn’t need our advice. He needs Dr. Phil.



Turtle suffers from advanced stage hypermultiboatslutism. He knows he can’t find the perfect canoe. He just wants us to enable his rationalizations to buy yet another canoe he can’t afford and doesn’t need.



And which he’ll probably sell in six months.



To Yanoer.

Uh uh
there is room for a new boat here. Now whether a demand of one is sufficient for the cost of a new mold is up to the buyer.

Funny!


Glenn,

A cleverly written and funny anylasis and deep down probibly has some truth. My one extravigance has been buying and selling solo boats. In general I stay close to the break even point,and have a lot of fun. Every once in a while I get a “keeper”. I really don’t know nearly everything about solos,and value the knowlege and experience here. I have never paddled a Vagabond or Yellowstone solo,so they are on my to try list. There is a big difference for me paddling a boat that can be forced to turn or go straight vs one that loves to.Also,my paddling priorities and phisical abilities keep changing,so it’s a moving target.I actually reduced my fleet by one boat last year by finding buying one that replaced 2!.



Turtle

If Glenn is right…
I need to guide you in the purchase of your next solo canoe. I need to make sure that you pick one that I like.

David

– Last Updated: Nov-08-12 1:06 PM EST –

I think that you, I, Bob, and Rich should start a boat exchange club and circulate canoes among ourselves at semiannual intervals.

As an added plus, Bob and I are now of an age that by the time a boat makes its way back to us we will have forgotten that we ever owned it, and it will be as if brand new.

That would sure save me a lot of money
and storage space. Too bad we live so far apart.



I you retired folk did the transporting, we might be able to make it work.

RapidFire, kneeling
I also paddle a RapidFire with a bench seat mounted as high as possible. I usually kneel or “half-kneel” (one leg forward, foot on the footbrace). I like the boat, though it is not as nimble as my WildFire and the freeboard in the middle is a little low for me on the windblown Hudson.



Turtle, I paddled the boat up and down the Oswegatchie a couple of years ago, with a backpacking-style pack and a few odds and ends. I made good time in the turns, especially on the way back down! I heeled the boat to the outside of every turn, but not nearly to the rail. It is true that I needed to secure my pack to prevent it from shifting during a heel and surprising me.



Yanoer, when you say you paddled a RapidFire with a high seat, do you mean the highest kayak-style seat, or a bench, canoe-style seat? I don’t find the RapidFire a particularly lively boat on the rare occasions I use it as a deckless kayak, but it heels nicely when I can use my knees to make my intentions clear.



If I had my dream canoe, it would have the nimbleness of the WildFire (hence fuller and less asymmetrical than the RF), at least the forward speed of the RapidFire, and a deck. A 16-foot, 26-inch, symmetrically rockered, asymmetrically flared, decked WildFire – that would attract my interest! For now, I settle for a RapidFire with float bags, but I continue to hope.



Mark

'twas a medium height seat in the Rapid
that I paddled a few days ago - basically a couple inches off the bottom - very low center of gravity.