Dromedary Bag in the Cockpit????

type of paddling
I think it will depend somewhat on the type of paddling you will be doing. I keep a 3L camelback behind the seat of my Nordy, and that is about all that will fit under the backback to bulkhead straps.



You are talking about nearly 30lbs of water that will slosh around big time. This will not be much fun if you are already pushing your limits in conditions. If you have spent much time paddling with a partially flooded cockpit, you know what I mean.



If you can figure out a way to secure the bladders to the bottom of the boat it would be helpful, but sloshing will always have some effect even just while just leaning the boat. If you are paddling moderately flat water, then it would be reasonable to go for it, but I would do some serious testing before I headed out on a trip expecting to do this for the first time.

Another Consideration
Another thing to keep in mind about one large Dromedary vs several smaller ones: If you put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak, you could be in trouble if you lose that large one or it springs a leak (even though Dromedaries are pretty tough).

Shouldn’t be an issue
Items that are not secured to the boat will also move along with the rolling motion. As the boat moves from upside down to slightly to its side, the bag would follow the lowest point of contact in the boat and essentially follow the hull line.



Water is heavy, but I really don’t think the bag would be so large that it would hinder rolling. I’ve seen people re-enter and roll completely flooded hulls and I can’t imagine it would be worse than that.



I tend to not like things to be loose in the boat, however, so I try to find solutions which keep items secured as much as possible. One could also find/make a container for your water bag that could then be secured in the boat (either behind the seat or a place where it won’t impede comfort or mobility).



Rick

yes
When camping I almost always paddle with an unsecured 10L water bottle between my legs. Not ideal, just not alot of options, hatch space is way too precious and securing the bag would mean rope in the cockpit, an entrapment risk, or placing the bag too far forward. I don’t think it would impact rolling at all but I agree that it is best to have it behind the seat if possible. Lyn

All good thoughts…
But has anyone actually tried rolling with the bag in the cockpit?



Of course I can try it my self, but just don’t feel like going and packing up my whole boat and going to the expense of buying a 10 liter dromedary in order to try it.



Agree with the re-entry and roll analogy and I thought of that too, but in that instance the water rolls pretty evenly to the lowest point of the boat at all times where the big bag would perhaps not be so dynamic in its tendancy to do that (it may tend to stick and then rapidly slide or fall).



As far as conditions, I would be paddling in potential conditions or where I may choose to roll to cool off anyway.



Just wondering if anyone has tried it.

A consideration…
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1atV0B257jfZD4BKFPbMDNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink





Jon

http://3meterswell.blogspot.com

clean cockpit
Shawna Franklin from Body Boat Blade related a story during a rescue class: In a storm on the south coast of Iceland, her husband came out of his boat when he got hit by a large wave and couldn’t get back in because of bags in the cockpit that had shifted. They ended up having to do a towed rescue in big surf conditions before they could rearrange his cockpit. After that they went back to the rule of nothing in the cockpit unsecured.

If you put something in make sure it’s secure. Not just wedged in or tied with a piece of cord that could entrap you. And of course, practice your preferred rescue method to see if it causes problems. The only place I would put something would be behind the seat and lashed down.

Nice solution
With the suction cups/straps. Better, most likely, than any attempt to wedge an amorphous bag of water into a secure location or having it lie between legs.



As for rolling, I still don’t think that water in a container (as long as it doesn’t interfere with mobility) will have an affect on one’s ability to roll. We’re talking about 80 lbs. of water (about 37 kilos) and I’ve rolled boats with considerably more dead weight in them.



The way I see it, the container will either shift or not during the roll. If it shifts, it will simply fall to the lowest point of the boat during the roll, which may actually minimally facilitate rolling. If it doesn’t, it would be no different than any other 80 lbs. of dead weight in the boat.



But to answer the question as to whether I’ve done this with a water bag sloshing under my legs, no, I haven’t.



Rick

d rings
I have 2 sets of NRS D rings that come attached to a patch then I glued one set in front of my feet and the other behind my back band. That way I can tie down anything I place inside my cockpit including water bladders and my paddle float.

has been a problem
I have not put my 10L bag under my legs because a friend once got capsized during an expedition, and when he rolled up, a large water bladder in his cockpit was stuck over on one side, so both his feet were on the right side of the boat, and the 20 pound water bladder was on the left. He did ok, but felt fairly uneasy in the rough conditions that had just capsized him, but was unable to sort it all out until he had finished the challenging crossing.



If you want to store stuff there, I’d go to the trouble to attach some straps to the floor of your cockpit, and strap the dromedary bag in place.



Personally I put it behind my seat.



Nate


30lb

– Last Updated: Nov-19-12 7:15 AM EST –

The 13 liter bag will weigh 13kg, about 30lb.

Losing water
This article about a Falklands trip demonstrates what is probably the biggest danger of carrying your water loose in the cockpit.

http://www.marcusdemuth.com/Pages/2009FalklandIslands.aspx

water bags thoughts
Some of my peers prefer placing water bladders under their knees. I tried this once – I hate of the feel of it (it felt confining) and it impeded my leg drive.



I put multiple dromedary bags behind my seat. Depending on the trip I will carry multiple 4 liter bags. The top bag has a dromedary hydration system to keep me hydrated while paddling (allowing a clean deck and no water weight on my back). Having the same bag for hydration and storage gives you more options should a bag fail.



I prefer multiple bags over a single bag. I agree that having “all eggs in one basket” is not the best plan. I haven’t had any dromedaries leak but I have seen racoons chew through milk jugs to get water in the Everglades.



There isn’t much room for the bags to shift behind the seat in my kayaks. I have capsized in dumping surf in Iceland and elsewhere with this setup and had no problem rolling or with the the load shifting.



I don’t want bags that can leak in a hatch – with all my dry gear (even if it is drybagged). Also, on a steep beach I like being able to remove my water bags INSTANTLY – with that weight free, I can more easily pull the kayak up the beach. In one situation I almost had to throw my bags over a berm and quickly haul the boat to safety, before the next wave hit.



Greg Stamer

Anchor points
I have never seen a 13lt Dromedary bag but I have several 10lt ones that I use on long trips.

One is SECURED to the bottom of the cockpit, just in front of the seat (behind the seat I place smaller items since a 10lt bag doesn’t fit).

Securing the bag is imperative for me in case of a capsize. I have made 4 sturdy small saddles (from fibraglass) and epoxy glued them to the hull, inside the cockpit. Details with images here: http://gnarlydognews.blogspot.com.au/2009/07/shop-underdeck-storage.html

I have
Its never been a problem, but I usually store it beyond my foot pegs.

clarify
I wouldn’t do a long crossing or paddle all day in any kind of weather with a loose bag in the cockpit. I limit this setup to going from launch to first campsite and from place of water supply back to campsite, always a short distance. Lyn

Northwater Bladder Anchor
Comes I pairs. Web daisy chain sewn onto hypalon. Glue in line along keel line starting in front if the seat. Puts the ballast weight right in line with the heaviest load in the kayak, the paddler.



See you on the water,

Marshall

The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

www.the-river-connection.com

hudsonriverpaddler.org

Great idea!
I have used them in a canoe before for tying down portage packs…never would have thought to use them in my kayak.



So what do you glue them in with? I have found Vynabond doesn’t work well on kevlar canoes, so not sure if it will work on fiberglass.



Matt

Padeyes, G-Flex, 1/4
1) Position the bag in the cockpit, extending from the front bulkhead toward the seat.



2) Mark padeye lash-points corresponding to those on bag on the inside hull on either side plus center front & back. Better to have too many than too few; you can always skip a set of padeyes. Be careful not to position the padeyes where your heels point in from the footpegs, and not too close to the sides where they can interfere with your legs.



3) Glue padeyes at lash-points plus center front & rear with G-Flex. Position the padeyes longitudinally at the sides (parallel with side seam of kayak) and front & rear center padeyes laterally (perpendicular to side seam).



4) Starting with the center padeye near the bulkhead, run 1/4" bungee cord side to side through padeyes & over bag in a diamond pattern. Skip the front center padeye. Position the knot(s) near the bulkhead, as 1/4" knots can impinge on your feet/legs, especially in a narrow or low-profile boat.



5) Weave a non-stretchy strap or rope front to back loosely through the bungees where they cross in the middle so you can grab & lift the bungees all together to slide the bag in or out.



6) Attach a strap or cord with hook to front center padeye, to attach to first bungee crossover once the bag is in place, to prevent the bag from sliding forward (toward the seat).

MSR bag mounting
I have mounted MSR 10m liter bags in the cockpit of my Epic V10S surfski and in the rear hatch of my Kaskazi Skua ARX and dumped both and the bags stayed in place.

I glued square back pack strap attachments I got from Campmor to both the V10S and Skua and used straps to hold the MSR bags in place.





For details see

http://www.kayakfishinghole.com/community/showthread.php?t=4278&highlight=Skua