Is Ocean Paddling Becoming Pay to Play?

Not really …
People do make kayaking a business, and the money is located in older folks who can afford seakayaks.



Get into surf kayaking and you can paddle with the best in the world at no charge.



I wonder if the sport has maxed out what it will bare though. This year the Southwest Seakayak symposium is being scaled back without “Expensive Big Name Instructors” … at least something I saw in my email a while ago.


SD symposium
partly it was scaled back because they added http://www.bajakayakfest.com



San Diego isn’t great for rough water classes compared to playing in the rock gardens in Baja. Combine that with dwindling attendance and the result is migrating the more serious stuff to just the Baja event.

Younger generation…
Are either professionals incredibly busy nowadays working long hours, or not working/broke and unable to afford recreation. So I’d suspect it’s the ones on a quick power vacation who are shelling out bucks to get out and play, and learn as much as they can, to whom you are referring…

Jack, you’re from NC
We both have been willing in the past to pay for paddling events. That type of nominal fee, such as the fees we’ve paid to sign up for race events, is what we’re going for to make this coastal NC event happen. Myself and the other Wilmington organizers are all paying the same event fee as everyone else. I know it may not be your type of event, but if you get the chance to read my long post above, does it sound reasonable, or does it actually give you the impression that you would be paying to paddle with someone more than paying some nominal fee for a few hour race does?

some replies–
thanks for all the great feedback.



I will clarify, as I am not sure that I made myself completely clear.



What I am referring to is that many of the intermediate or reasonably advanced paddlers that used to perhaps be buds that you might paddle with have abandoned paddling with groups of like-skilled friends in order to paddle solely for pay. I have seen this in a few different areas of the country now. Seems that there used to be clubs and groups of skilled intermediate paddlers that got together to paddle in bigger conditions, etc. for fun, but not so much anymore. The result is that there are fewer and fewer intermediate groups to join up with. Plenty of beginners looking to paddle with others, but not a lot of more skilled paddlers, as they have turned to paddling with the beginner paddlers for money in many instances.



Now I don’t want to pay $500 or $600 to go to a symposium and take classes like “introduction to surf” etc. taught often times by some guy who is not really that good of a rough water paddler himself.



However, I may be willing to pay a MODEST price to participate in a TRUE GATHERING of paddlers like is described above by CapeFear.



In other words, a gathering with groups of folks just going out to paddle and not in some super controlled instructional venue where you are on a short leash by the timid instructor who is worried that the winds are gusting to 20 knots and that he needs to move the group to a sheltered location lest someone can’t handle the conditions or…that someone ACTUALLY needs to be rescued.



Many of these symposia teach all these rescue skills, etc, but then no one actually goes out and paddles in the big conditions where you may actually need to execute a rescue.



I am talking about a gathering where there would not only be students of beginner or intermediate skill, but intermediate and advanced paddlers wanting to play in rougher conditions as a group…and for a modest price.



$600 for three days or four days just to paddle…like they charge at most of the symposia is not worth it to me, unless you are guaranteed to have a like-skilled group of paddlers to paddle with along with a top notch instructor like Nigel Dennis, etc, and with a low teacher to student ratio. But that is never the case.



I would pay some money to attend a “paddle palooza” kind of event.



They have lots of events like that in the whitewater community…like the Cheat Fest. But it’s paddlers coming together for a good time to paddle together, and not some intermediate paddlers who went out and got an ACA certification and are making money charging $600 a head for people to paddle with them.



Tom


lost good paddlers but not to $$
In my case some of the more skilled switched to surf skis (from ocean sea kayaks). Some got old and either don’t paddle or stay near the harbor ever refining various rolls. Some moved away. But only one or two in the last ten years I think left to paddle for pay.



But the results the same pretty much in that it’s hard to find others if you feel like a day of long distance or rough water or bigger surf launches. I now have a couple at my same level that get out pretty regular, a couple others less often and none better that could help guide/push me to the next level. I need to join pay type events to paddle with those better other than some rare exceptions.

A question of critical mass

– Last Updated: Jan-31-13 8:48 PM EST –

In my area there are not enough sea kayakers who would enjoy or are capable of rough water, expeditions, etc. There are quite a few, actually and they do team-up for such outings several times a year. But not enough so I could just post or call and get company when I can be available...

For paid events - people either plan ahead or make the time and these tend to happen only a few times a year too...

For White Water, however, the situation is much better where I am. Even in freezing waters there is always someone in the local run or play spot. There are several large clubs too, who regularly and quite often organize free or nominal fee outings at many skill levels.

There are also competitively or performance oriented flat water clubs that for your membership fee offer a lot of opportunities to paddle with your peers and even get instruction as part of the membership perks.

Those who paddle for money I can understand will not want to "waste" time to do the same for free if they can get paid. Nothing wrong with doing some business while enjoying their time on the water... In a sense, I can appreciate the model - if you don't know the paddler personally, them wanting to pay for your time for a specific type of instruction shows some level of understanding and commitment that might be harder to gauge otherwise...

agree - critical mass
I agree with the comment that it is critical mass.



If you have people in your area who like the same stuff you do, no need to pay to play. But if you don’;t, then hiring someone to help you may make sense. But, it can be challenging, as you have noted, to make sure the person you are hiring is going to provide what you want.



We have a good community of ocean paddlers here in NorCal. Definitely have that critical mass. One of the challenges for people not part of the group, though, is to get in with the group of more advanced people so you can paddle with them. Many think it is cliquish. But in reality is is that liability issue. These advanced paddlers understand that not everyone paddles at their level, but they want someone that they know will paddle within their level. Not everyone does.



The way in is often a bit of paying to play - most of these advanced paddlers are the instructors at local shops, and if they see you can control yourself in the class (taking appropriate risks, avoiding extreme risks), they may invite you on other paddles.


“The way in is often a bit of paying to play - most of these advanced paddlers are the instructors at local shops, and if they see you can control yourself in the class (taking appropriate risks, avoiding extreme risks), they may invite you on other paddles.”



With our group of somewhat advanced paddlers we invite in new folks by also having more moderate days that reveal a lot. For example before I will invite folks for rock garden outings I invite them a few times to safer surf outings to see how they handle their boats in various directions in breaking waves. Or do moderte distance paddles and see who seems eager for more miles.



But I’m lacking others to do the same for me for the next level up.


– Last Updated: Jan-31-13 10:08 PM EST –

Time to move from SoCal to NorCal!

Actually, I should have expanded some. There are other opportunities that aren't pay for play. Some of the Bay Area Sea Kayaker group paddles come to mind as non-pay to play ways to make inroads with the higher level paddlers.

I travel year round for work
so I see a lot of different areas. I have found it to be pretty easy to hook up with local paddlers. I use the internet in most cases to locate the “locals” or go to a paddle shop and just ask. I often just go up to strangers and ask.

It is pretty easy to find us, we have racks on our vehicles, and the back seat is crammed with paddles, pfds, dry bags ect… I have found that most kayakers are very inclusive as a group.

I do not want to sound like a snob, but if your paddle costs more than the other guys boat/equipment you may not have as much fun. It is a good gauge of skill levels, how many of you out there have an assortment of paddles much like golf clubs, depending on what the trip of the day is?



Having said that, I have opted out of invitations because I knew the trip of the day would be above my skill set. I hope others would act in this manner as to not endanger, or have a negative impact on the outing.

very true NM

I wish paddlers in my area would get…
I wish paddlers in my area would get training enough to pass an ACA L4 open water instructor certification. Heck even an L3 would prove entertaining. I wish paddlers in my area would get any type of training, or have any type of inclination to paddle anything above flat water conditions. I’ve been lucky to meet a few good paddlers who helped me get better at paddling by exposing me to challenging conditions, and I’ve sought out training to help with my progression. And I’ve met people who have got good training and got pretty good at paddling quickly, who enjoy challenging themselves, and these are the people I enjoy paddling with. But they are a small handful. Otherwise its lots of big fish in a small pond in my area, where a pool roll qualifies someone as an “experienced” paddler, even though they don’t surf, paddle rough water, or do anything other than paddle flat water, yet are looked upon as “experienced” paddlers for no good reason. Very strange, especially because there are a few small but interesting features near me that are great for training or playing in, but seldom few take advantage of…

I hope not
I just moved from an inland, sea-kayaker-scarce area to a coastal location. Maybe it’s stupid of me, but if there aren’t others to go with, I just go by myself. That’s true regardless whether it’s paddling, biking, hiking, or whatever. I make sure the expected conditions are within my abilities, with a extra-healthy margin of safety. Sure, if there was a regular group of skilled paddlers, I could push the edges more. But it’s better to go out and use extra caution than to not go at all.



I’ve attended 3 symposia, mainly because it’s an especially good event for those people who do not live near the sea. I look at them as opportunities to find out more about what I need to learn, rather than as the place/time to go into those things in depth. The ones I’ve gone to have allowed me to learn from some of those “name” instructors as well as less-well-known ones. At one of them, the light really came on as to how important navigation was for ocean paddling. All the previous reading and “being told” didn’t have the impact that a simple demonstration did.



Now, what you’re getting at is higher-level stuff, but I think the basic question still applies. Are skilled paddlers abandoning just-going-paddling for pay opportunities? At least, I think that’s what you asked. Regardless whether or not they are, it won’t keep me from going paddling. The scenario you describe sounds like the best-skilled paddlers are only paddling with each other or helping “lower” paddlers for money only. I have a hard time believing that’s true in general.

Dwindling attendance
I get the impression that’s true of symposia overall, not just the SW one.

That seems reasonably priced …
I was thinking that was going to be a lot more expensive.



Might be worth paying to play …



It’s a really fun spot. But rocks and seakayaks are not my thing. Kind of like having the wrong tool for the job.

Yes, that event fee does sound…

– Last Updated: Feb-01-13 8:16 AM EST –

proper and reasonable.
My response isn't geard towards symposiums or instructional events.
It was geared towards the OP's question on paddlers wanting to charge him to paddle with them.
I didn't know he was refeering to a specific instructional gathering or event.

By the way, I very much miss the Wrightsville Beach Sea kayak race. That was a good group of people

Jack L

Paddling for fun
Pro or not, if you’re not paddling for fun, you’re probably not that into paddling. In my experience, those who only paddle when they’re working, aren’t really dedicated paddlers, and tend not to develop their skills. If it’s just a job, and you’re not looking for days that you can spend on the water with friends/peers, then it really is just a job.



Leading/teaching folks on the water is totally different than playing with friends. They both have their rewards, but you can’t cut loose and push your limits when you’re responsible for others.



So, if you’re running into people who don’t paddle for fun at all, you probably don’t want to paddle with them anyways. On the other hand, if you’re meeting pros at shops or outfitters, and wondering why they don’t want to paddle with you for free, then it’s another issue - they may not be inclined to spend a day with someone who’s skills they know nothing about, and can you blame them?


Meet-Ups

– Last Updated: Feb-02-13 10:04 AM EST –

Search the Meetup site. If what you want is not there, start one yourself. It works. You can set your own criteria.

Example of thriving free beginners included kayaking group quickly advancing as instruction and pool practices are organized:

http://www.meetup.com/Kayak-Portland/

Meetup is good software for group outings.

I solved the nobody-available by training a water rescue buddy.

Always Enthusiastic
and ready to paddle, rescue, practice