Romany vs Zephyr or Tempest

Matter of fit too

– Last Updated: Feb-26-13 11:27 PM EST –

Blah! I hated the fiberglass Romany in terms of fit and cockpit ergonomics for me. The plastic Z 155 and the T 165 and the Delphin 155 were all more ergonomic and easier to adjust the fit out of the box for me... Nothing that some foam padding would not cure probably around the knee area, though the seat and back band in the Romany were also rather nasty to my bottom parts.

Once you paddle a Delphin, there is no going back to other 15-16 footers -;)

All this shows that personal preferences and intended use mean the perfect boat does not exist outside of a combination of factors that changes over time even for the same paddler...

You guys are completely right
There won’t be any one boat out there that will cover everything. However, I think once I get my first, it’ll be a couple of years before I get the next one. I’m not worried about the learning curve. I’d rather struggle a bit as I learn and take classes and have plenty of learning room for the next couple of years.



Peter, those are some crazy videos. It’s funny, at times it’s like watching ww videos, only the water comes from every side. It’s also very strange to see small boats with GL paddles, but it makes a lot of sense. Both you and Celia bring up good points I didn’t think about. In my head I was thinking that the longer the boat, the more floatation. Therefore longer would be better for rough waters. Couldn’t be more wrong though. Those small play boats are huge in volume and perfect for quick movements. (Just like in ww). I’m starting to get how shape provides different functionality, but it’s all about preference more than anything else.



The only problem I see with getting a romany would be that I’d probably find it on eBay and it would be completely unpredictable. I’d hope the last owner took good care of it, etc. This being my first big boat, I keep thinking it might be better to get something new that I know is in perfect condition and can have support from the manufacturer if there’s anything wrong. Plus, that I was able to test in person.



Thanks all. This is extremely helpful.

Get the Z 15.5
This is the most versatile of the bunch with play as a high priority and by far the cheapest, along with the T165. The Zephyr is also lighter than the rest, even the plastic Z is lighter than the fiberglass Romany and probably more durable where hard banging against rocks is involved. The Delphin handles better for bigger wave surfing and for currents, the Tempest is nicer to cover some distance in. All good choices, including the Romany, but for $600-$900 used a Z or a T makes a lot of sense to me as a firs boat for what you want. They are a bit lively but actually quite stable once you get used to them. The Delphin (and I think the Romany too) have stronger initial stability since they are flatter and more square bottomed, so they will be easier to get in and just paddle coming from a rec boat. The Delphin is unfortunately quite heavy at over 60lb and the T165 is low in the cockpit, which some don’t like for long days on the water. The hatches on the D are watertight and very solid; the ones on the Z may or may not bewatertight (more variation there) and are not as solid, but still fine and safe. So try them all - as long as the skeg works, the hatches close well, and the foam bulkheads are sealed (you can do that yourself easily if they aren’t) - there is very little that can be wrong with a used plastic boat, so IMO the risk of buying used plastic Z or T is low, if they look good overall - fiberglass you have to see in person carefully as there might be hidden damage/soft spots/repairs/cracks etc. that are not easily evident from photos.

Hey Luke,
Check out what is available from Novus Composites Kayaks. They are all American made and are super kayaks. nckayaks.com.

keep in mind
What I said about shorter being better was a generalization, and Celia added a very important note to this - only works on boats that are made as touring boats (so have hatches front and back, hull shapes made for moving,m etc.). Rec boats are shorter, but are not made for rough water.



And don’t necessarily mimic what Neptune’s Rangers do. Going too short, like the white water boats, adds risks (and takes away lots of speed). The Fusions and sometimes even true white water boats used by Neptune’s Rangers are only used when the rock play spots are close to the launch, and even then add in additional risks (particularly the true white water boats). These guys have true bombproof rolls (most of those guys only swim once every few years, even with what they do), have as much added flotation as can be added, know how to do a TX rescue if it gets that far, etc. Not for mere mortals like me.

Avocet?
At your size, don’t miss an opportunity to demo an Avocet RM.

Others in the lineup
In addition to something Delphin/Aries wise, when you’re up for it and here, others that’d be worth taking out of the Boathouse would be;



North Shore Polar

P&H Scorpio (std. or lv - depends on fit)

Venture Islay/Islay LV - Might not be a bad combination of features.



See you on the water,

Marshall

The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

www.the-river-connection.com

hudsonriverpaddler.org

Looks like I have a new list
To continue researching. Thanks again all. We have our first indoor pool session coming up this weekend. I’m pumped to get going.

Many other boats to try
Unfortunately I am bigger than you and do not fit well in the Romanies, and Zephyr 155. I really liked the Zephyr 160 Pro for fit and maneuverability. It would be a great all-around play boat. Rolling the Zephyr 155 was the best next to my SOF. Wilderness has the best seats. After trying the Aries 155 and Delphin 155, I think they are the best all-around play boats. I found a good deal on an Aries 155 and now have one.

Some other boats to try are Necky Elias, Eliza, Chatham 16, and Chatham 17. I found the Elias composite to be a fantastic rough water boat. The Delphin provided a little more secondary pressure for big waves than the Elias because of my high CG. Medium size paddlers should enjoy the Elias. If the Elias cockpit is too big try the Eliza. There are plenty of reviews on the Chatham series. Valley has the Avocet which has great reviews. They have 2 new small boats out also. So you have many choices for play boats. Now which to choose play boat or touring?



JimZ

Tempest 165
I got the Tempest 165 for Christmas and it’s a fantastic boat but don’t even consider it…you’ll never fit. I’m 5’6", 150lbs and with size 10 shoes. The foot room can be a bit cramped for me at times but otherwise it fits me like a glove. The 170 or even the 180 Pro would be great for you size wise.

not necessarily
Fit for the OP may depend on what type of footwear is used, and whether the Tempest seat were to be moved back, as a number of owners have done. There are guys that size that enjoy the T165.

I think sizing will be determined
When I finally get to sit in some options and test things out.



As far as playful vs touring, in my head I’m looking at it the way I approach snowboarding. Some like going fast. Some like trick courses and halfpipes. I like neither, I like going on intermediate runs or whatever level the group of people I’m with is at. I like enjoying the ride, and the moment I see a jump on the side of the trail I’m on it. Same goes if I see a quick run into the woods, or a place to explore. Therefore my board is neither hard for speed, or super soft for tricks. It’s right down the middle. Plenty of speed, but handles beautifully the moment I want to have some fun.



That’s what I want out of my first boat. I want to be able to travel with a pack of kayakers, as well as be able to take enough equipment for short camping trips. However, the moment I get the chance to play in some surf (once I learn enough skills of course) or some small ww patches, I want to know my boat can handle it and it’ll be a great time. I don’t want to get stuck with a boat that can do only one of those two thing beautifully. I want to find one that might not be the best at either, but as good a crossover as possible. We’ll also see what my butt tells me once I sit in a couple of options.



Once again, thanks all for the superb feedback.

One more addition
I also think I’ll be able to get another boat down the line depending on what I like best at that point. Maybe I fall in love with playing in surf, I think at that point it would be excellent to then purchase my next boat specifically for that task. And vice versa…

A quiver full
Welcome to the addiction.



See you on the water,

Marshall

The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

www.the-river-connection.com

hudsonriverpaddler.org

Gremlin!

– Last Updated: Feb-28-13 4:40 PM EST –

That's so not true. I have a buddy at about 6'4" and about 175 pounds who thoroughly enjoys his T165. He just had to move the seat back some.

edit:

Dear Wilderness Systems, God knows how many people are passing up your fine boat because the seat is bolted in too far forward. Make the damn thing easily adjustable.

Your friend,

Kudzu

Now Yer Talkin’
If you want a ‘do everything pretty good’ boat my vote is with the T165. Down the road look at the Alchemy-Delphin-type shorter-funner boats.



And remember, you can move the seat back, or your local shop can move the seat back to make getting in and out easier.

Yes, and, it’s not like they’re clueless
I have a Confluence Wavesport Fuse. The seat pan and attachment is nearly identical to the Tempest. The Wavesport pan is slotted, where we typically drill the extra holes in our Tempest pans. And, there’s a unified thread plate on each side, instead of two nuts. So, you just loosen the external phillips heads, slide the seat, and tighten the screws.

Exclusing others
The Yost designed Swift Saranac Series, 14 and 15 ft, high and low volume decks, respond nicely on the water for me. Easy to get a perfect fit with four, actually five choices, snd designed by a master to track and turn without skeg or rudder.



And they are lighter to tote to the beach.

I fit the 170
Comfortably and not the 165. I’m 5’11" long legs 190 lb. size 12 shoe.

6’4" size 15 foot at 185lb and …

– Last Updated: Feb-28-13 7:20 PM EST –

With a 36"+ inseam I have long legs attached to my size 15 feet...

And, I could live with a Tempest 165 barefoot for "workout" paddles (i.e., a couple of hours at a time out and back). Have not really tried it for longer. The later models (post 2010 or so) have the seats further back; the seats on the older ones can be easily repositioned too (requires 2 new holes - easy to do).

Yes, not much foot room in the 165, but these are not barges - they are meant to be snug fitting. The 170 I can paddle with my paddling shoes on comfortably and without repositioning the seat - that feels rather spatious now (but seemed cramped a few years ago when I first sat in it)...