Advice on friend wanting toborrow kayaks

We have a capella 166 also
and that is not a beginner kayak plus wrong useage - it is not a designated river kayak. It is a sea kayak meant for fairly open water, it cannot turn quickly due to its length and in rivers you need moveability.



Wrong boat/wrong conditions = no go. Trust your instincts.

listen to your instincts luke

You are right
And he is wrong to even ask. That puts you at a giant risk in a number of ways, above and beyond how bad you would feel if something went south. I am sure your friend lacks the clothing for this water temp, and based on your description I can’t see how he could handle any current in the Cappela without taking a swim.



To some degree, your friend is ignoring your own expertise in this area. If he had asked to go out with you to learn more about kayaking and the only issue was water temps it would be one thing. But asking to borrow and drive away with a few thousand dollars worth of equipment that he can’t use well (and did he happen to mention if he is set up to transport a 16 plus ft boat safely?)… I’d question his respect for what you have put in time learning.



He may not be aware of this - maybe he is a type A personality who figures everything is equally easy. But you need to bring him back to ground.

Show him this thread…
I would send him the link to this discussion. Your explanation of your reservations is cogent, and he can read for himself that a lot of experienced paddlers back up your position.



IMO, if he wants to take his son paddling, he should sign up with an instructional group, do things right, and get them both some skills. It will cost a bit, though.

friend
My friend is a bit of a Type A, but I don’t fault him for asking. Frankly, I don’t think he knows much about kayaking and isn’t aware of the risks. He has paddled some rental kayaks before, but I think his experience is very limited. I wasn’t aware of the risks from hypothermia and cold shock until after I got a kayak and started doing some reading.

Outfitting is another issue.
Your kayaks may not be quickly adaptable to the anatomy of your friend and his son. Inexperienced paddlers, unfamiliar boats, not properly outfitted for control.



A difficult interpersonal issue, but not one where just going with the flow makes sense.

With his son…
I had slipped and missed that part. Whatever you think of this guy as a friend personally, his ego needs some major checking. The first question if he is taking a child along is to confirm what is safe, especially if he has a readily available way to check it out like to talk with you.



Lack of personal awareness doesn’t play as a good excuse when someone is going to be responsible for their child. Someone has to be a grownup.

son
His son is not a child, in his 20s.

OK - off base there
Sorry. I have a rather strong response to this because we dodged a bullet several years ago. A friend wanted to check out purchasing one of our boats by taking it out on the Hudson, by himself, in chilly-water weather. We felt badly, but refused to sell it to him unless we had a chance to go out with him and gauge things. (and dress him properly)



He never took us up on our offer, we never sold the boat, and a while after that we learned a few things about his behaviors that made us very glad we had not made the deal. That eventually ended badly, but our little red boat was not part of the story.



Lesson learned - any guilt from withholding “stuff” from a friend is a lot easier to manage than feeling bad about not having stopped a bad thing.

Be frank
Explain what your experiences are, what are the risks of paddling on cold water without proper attire, what it takes to flip a sea kayak. It is a pity that you can’t put them in those boats somewhere close to the shore where they can experience the joys of self rescue in the low 50s water.





Here is the scientific overview -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect




It’s fun to say no to type A’s

– Last Updated: Mar-25-13 6:05 PM EST –

and then watch their controlling personalities squirm. Even better not to include an explanation.

response
Well, I emailed my concerns to my friend, and he appreciated my views. He has decided to call off the trip for now but might try it later after it warms up and I can go along. He wasn’t offended at all by my frank assessment and thanked me for my honesty. Thanks to everyone here for helping me collect my thoughts.

Great!
Now you’ll have a chance to get him started so he can have fun rather than drama. That is always enjoyable.

Excellent
See if you can steer him to Falls Lake or Jordan. Probably more beginner friendly than the Neuse.

(laughing) I agree
Always fun to say no to someone who’s used to bossing people around.

This saying applies.
Never a borrower, nor a lender be. Some things are just out of the question when it comes to loaning. My list starts with my wife, then the sea kayaks, motorcycles, vehicles, shop equipment, bikes …

I’ll help
I like that run, so if you offer to go with him. We could go together. You would then have to barrow a boat from me. Tell him groups of two are not warranted for that trip at this time of year. The water is danger cold and there is NO PLACE to get out along the river for a few miles in sections. Deep water Rescue skills are a must in places.



Email me to figure out which of my boats might fit you.

Take Nancy Reagan’s advice…
Just say no.

good
that you have been able to tell your friend as it is and he understood it for what it was - a genuine expression of concern for his well-being.



Not that I ever had a dilemma of similar magnitude - but I have to confess a few times when people wanted an advice on potentially dangeous stuff and ignored my sincere warning I just washed my hands off, gave them the advice “as is” and made certain I was not around when they tried to follow it, using whatever knowlege they had in their heads. Sometimes you just can’t/should not reason with people.

Loaning kayaks to a friend
You obviously want to help your friend, and all the factors you mentioned are valid reasons to refuse his request.

It’s likely that he has never even considered any of those things.

At best, he’ll thank you and be appreciative for the help you will give him when the water warms up.

At worst, he won’t thank you, but you won’t have your name in the newspapers as the guy that enabled someone to get hurt.