The Forward Stroke

I was referring to this interview
http://www.marinaoutrigger.org/forum/index.php?topic=3414.0;wap2

Potential energy is a state function
you only get out what you put in - 0 sum gain. How does this help anything?

Arm-paddling gets the job done
Just not as well.



Most people, including me, started off arm-paddling. It will result in forward motion, yes. I guess you could stop right there and be contented. But the OP asked about improving his technique.

I use 3 ways of paddling

– Last Updated: Jun-06-13 1:40 PM EST –

One is the "traditional" wing technique (regardless of weather I use a wing, greenland, or a euro paddle). Paddle starts at the boat and swings out and back. Works best with a wing paddle or a greenland paddle. Works OK with some euro paddles. Top arm moves sideways parallel to the horizon, crossing the center line quite a bit as the stroke progresses. Exit of the paddle is early. Similar to the race stroke for short sprint races. Strong leg drive, not much twist but a lot of rotation. Generally, for longer distances I relax some of the components a bit but the overall form remains the same. It requires good shape and a fast boat to have a satisfactory experience with this technique. But it gives the most top speed and power for me.

Another is a forward "crunch" technique, usually use that with my greenland paddle and alternate with the wing stroke to change what muscles I use. Less rotation, some body twist, power comes from the crunch forward.

Third I mainly use for white water with a short euro paddle. That uses some rotation and body twist. Powerful leg drive but not a long one so there is very little lower torso rotation. There is also some crunch component. The blade stays very close to and parallel to the boat all the time (white water boats don't like it when you have the paddle way to the side - they turn). Exit is very early (no dragging the blade behind the hip).

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Many touring sea kayak paddlers seem to use a mild form of the third technque the most. Rotation there is not huge (butt barely slides on the seat, if at all), leg drive is there but not exagerated (short and not too powerful), pulling arm tends to bend, pushing arm does not cross the bow much and stays lower than chin level through most of the stroke (going down towards the end), etc. There is some upper body twist, but not much.

This is just an easy stroke to maintain for a long time with a euro blade, as long as you are not pushing your speed limits. When you want to put in a burst of power, you revert to what I described above for my third option (you will tighten-up your form and lift your front arm, make it cross the bow at chin level, exit the water with the paddle early, more powerful leg drive, perhaps a bit of but sliding, etc.)

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Here is an interesting thread with plenty of videos on forward stroke: http://www.surfski.info/forum/2-announcements/17076-forward-stroke-comments.html

What kind of seat and back band?
A low, loose back band (more like a hip band)–or none at all–allow freer rotation. A slippery seat surface also helps.



It sounds like you haven’t “felt” what torso rotation is, but your backband and seat types might be making it harder to achieve.

Thanks for posting that link
"For experienced paddlers, technique training can be done just by controlling the workout a little more, staying conscious of your blade placement, hip rotation, etc."



Nice to read that his emphases apply to non-racing paddling as well as racing. Also the emphasis on flatwater work for technique refinement. I’ve always felt it was necessary even though not sufficient.

since I first saw myself
Since I first saw myself paddling on video with a go pro about a year and a half ago, I’ve really been trying to put some focus on removing the “crunch” component from my forward stroke, although I’m not sure we’re talking about exactly the same thing, but probably similar. I’ve noticed others doing it since noticing myself. The interesting thing is that I starting focusing on eliminating it for two reasons - to encourage better rotation (appeared and feels to me I was substituting one for the other), and I feel it’s healthier for my back. So my feeling was that it was just a formed bad habit. Not sure if there’s truly sound reasoning behind it, but I seem to have consistently slowly eliminated a little back soreness that seemed to be developing at times. I’m figuring the constant twisting for hours on end with a straight, somewhat properly aligned spine is helping over a habit of twisting for hours on end with my spine in something of a somewhat bent position from incorporating a sort of crunch motion habit. Seems to feel better & better over time?

I don’t know if it’s truly bad habit or a good enough substitute, but my experience tends towards the bad habit side of things. Who knows? It hasn’t been a quick habit to break, but hopefully I’ll keep getting closer as long as it feels healthy.

Yes, I Agree, For 30 Years, Oscar
Has been my paddling hero and inspiration, and I’ll always remember him and his brother Herman using flat “euro” blades to beat all the elite paddlers, including Olympians that were all using wing paddles in the 1989 BANKOH Molokai Kayak Challenge. All I’m suggesting is an alternative to the three principles of paddling: rotation, rotation and rotation.



Simply drop your body weight on the blade at the “catch” and feel the boat accelerate forward. No additional effort from your muscles are necessary, other than the reset for the next stroke. Adopting this technique has enable me to extend my water time from 20 minutes to 2 hours. Trust me, it isn’t fun to be 2 miles out at sea when your back goes out.

In kayak, torso rotation is a bigger
issue, but if you look at real-life, good paddlers, not at Greg Barton, you may find that they’re moving smartly along without exaggerated rotation.



It seems not to occur to torso rotation proponents that:



a.) there is a good bit of frictional energy loss in exaggerated torso rotation.



b.) if the arms and shoulders are used correctly, exaggerated rotation is not needed.



What is needed is a firm pulse of torso rotation, combined with appropriately limited arm action, right after the catch, and continuing until the lower hand nears the hip. You don’t want to keep rotating the torso as long as you can, because well before that, you should have extracted the blade.



Shorter, firm torso twisting, shorter, firm arm action, getting the work done in front of the hip. It’s the same basic approach in canoe paddling and kayaking.

Sorry No, But Do Check Out Videos
Of elite outrigger and SUP paddlers that appear to have adopted this technique.

Maybe Half?

True, But this Technique Packs a Bonus
Of being able to use half the effort. And when coupled with a lightweight shaft with a bit of flex, you gain an additional bonus of EPS or elastic potential energy.

Yes, but …
for a different reason. The amount of force you can apply to the paddle is maximal at the beginning of the stroke and declines shortly after that. That is just a function of how our bodies are constructed. So you want to extract the paddle just after the maximal force if you want to go as fast as possible. But for typical sea kayaking you can use a longer stroke so long as you do not bend your lower arm, keep rotating, keep the paddle vertical, and slice the paddle out to the side. That period of lesser effort but not increased effort from lifting water provides a short recovery period.

Different strokes for different folks
I paddle with a lot of groups being a member of an active kayak club. Wings, euros, GPs - some have taken stroke courses, some not etc. We all seem to travel along at the same efficiency and speed - all arrive at our lunch stop together and nobody seems to have any great advantages. Stronger people can just paddle stronger. No doubt, if you are training for serious racing, then proven methods will work better but… you need to be in great shape to use an extreme body rotation like racers do. Big muscles take big energy to operate. Personally, I feel your body will adapt to a very efficient stroke for you with regular use and not a lot of distortion. You can be conscious about incorporating more torso rotation as it pleases you but you described the frustration with that very well in you initial post. I also feel having a few different strokes and varying them can give muscles a break during longer paddles. Most important - enjoy yourself.

posts
Kocho and g2d. Those were great posts. This illuminates the strength of this web-site. Lots of good info from experienced paddlers.

Probably the best post here !
Well said.

I whole heartedly agree



Jack L

Technique is king
Improving technique often yields more dramatic gains than improving fitness or strength, although all are important if you want to perform at your best.



I view forward stroke technique as a lifetime goal. If you work at it you improve each year. If you don’t, you don’t. A big torso rotation needs time to learn – both mentally and physically.



I try to rotate all the way to the bottom of the seat, not only on races but also on expeditions. The longer you sit in the cockpit the more important it is that you have good posture and mechanics, otherwise you are just setting yourself up for discomfort or injury.



The key, IMO, is to learn the fundamentals and then apply them to your physique. We all have physical issues and that might prevent you from making some movements, such as an extreme rotation or lifting the paddle vertically. It’s not always easy to find the wisdom to know what limitations you must accept and which ones you can conquer (such as limited or poor motion caused by poor flexibility, strength, etc). I see a lot of paddlers who are very inflexible; a lot of common problems can be addressed by a good stretching or Yoga program.



Club paddles are not a good gauge of technique, IMO. A group will (usually) travel at the rate of the weakest link. Races give a better view of performance, but are distorted, because the goals of a racer are not usually the same as a long-distance paddler. That said, even an expedition paddler can grow tremendously as a paddler through racing, as well as other skill-intense activities like whitewater and surf kayaking.



Greg Stamer

Great Post! (NM)

Sorry, no free lunch
Not even a 1/2 off lunch.



You can put your entire body weight onto the blade but you have to use muscles to oppose that force and transfer the work to forward motion. Maybe some OC and SUP paddlers get more use out of the big trunk muscles by using GPE as a visual but the muscles are still doing work.

post
OK OK. Stamer’s post was all right. But not as good as Kocho’s !!!