looking to upgrade to a touring/sea yak

length and uses
we have actually tried out a few different things and know that we want to stay in the 14-16 range. i am looking at 14.5 15 primarily. husband is looking more 16 maybe 17 since he will do more overnight trips.



we are looking to cover distance with good time and less effort on flat and open water, but also want the ability for sea with out buying another kayak :frowning: hence the choice of length.



i am aware that finding what we want in our price range is quite difficult and is why we are looking at used. we have looked at and/or tried in water several we found on craigslist and most arent going to work for one reason or another.



the necky elaho sold and we are going to try the tracer today, but then will still need a second comparable boat. we mostly paddle together so even though husband will want a bit larger for cargo, i want to be able to keep up during day paddles.

Comparative stiffness
Stiffness depends on the thickness of the plastic as well as stiffening deck architecture. Eddyline is the only thermoformed manufacturer I know of that builds stiffness into the deck architecture, and it makes a big difference.



Stiffness of the top four, in order:

  1. Eddyline

    2 and 3. Delta and Swift
  2. Hurricane

Let us know what you think of the Tracer
I’ve done a lot of kayak camping in kayaks that were 12’10", 14’6", and 15’6". The hatch volume of those three kayaks was in the reverse order, with the 12.10 having the largest volume and the 15.5 having the smallest volume. It is very possible to camp with a 13’-14’ kayak. You definitely don’t need 17’ to camp. I could camp for a week in my 12.10.



Okay, Plan B: buy the best kayak you can afford now, use it for a while, sell it for a profit, and upgrade. That’s how I acquired an Eddyline, which didn’t cost me a single dollar in the end. It took 9 upgrades to get to my goal. Great fun.














Here you go
http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/3807579741.html

TRACER WOULD BE A GOOD CHOICE

– Last Updated: Jun-11-13 11:50 PM EST –

I can't speak to your other two candidates, but the Tracer is a good boat. At 16-1/2 feet long X ~22-3/8 inches wide, it's a far sleeker and faster boat than any rec designs I can think of, and equal to or better than quite a few other tourers.

These days the Tracer is skegged out of the factory, and may or may not be ruddered; when we got Sally's, it had neither and was a "turny" boat, with even experienced paddlers working to keep it headed. It became a good tourer, tracking well with some skeg, and quite maneuverable with the skeg up, after we had one retrofitted. Sally finds the boat quite stable (as do I) -and this was her first SINK after paddling a Scupper Classic SOT (14'1" X 26") for several years before switching to a SINK touring design.

The Hurricane boats are made of Trylon, their proprietary brand of vacu-formed thermoplastic, and it hold up well. It looks like glass when cleaned up, and is tough stuff -we've accidentally dropped ours a couple-three times, twice on asphalt (ouch!) and it's none the worse for wear other than a slight abrasion at the contact point. A friend of ours saw one of the other Hurricane boats, a Tampico I think it was, take a header off a car roof rack similarly onto a parking lot. It bounced and then came to rest, with no damage other than a scuff where it "touched" down.

We've had Sally's Tracer about 8 or so years -and we got it used at two years old, and at ten, it still looks great and paddles well. We keep it outdoors under the palms down here, albeit hull up, and the color is still as good as when we got it. The Kajaksport hatches, with a little 303 used 3-4 times a year, have held up well and remain nicely waterproof.

The down side for some is a largish cockpit -exactly what Sally was looking for to escape a feeling of claustrophobia she got in other, smaller, 'locked-in' cockpits. Sit in one and see it it works for you.

All in all, it's been a great boat for Sally, and looks handsome in the water, too.

You could do a lot worse than a Tracer as one of your next boats to

PADDLE ON!

-Frank in Miami

tracer responses

– Last Updated: Jun-12-13 5:09 PM EST –

several things here..

as for overnight camping, yes the tracer is more than adequate but that will be a small portion of what we want to do. mostly long paddles, island hopping, and eventually sea. looking for versatility. plus the tracer is a used boat for under $1000 so its hard to pass up :)

UPDATE: husband bought the tracer last night. its in great shape, looks brand new and he fit in it perfectly. i have not sat in it yet but we are gonna try it out this weekend. if i like it i found a second one for sale.

to the poster who said sally thought it was a bit large... wow she must be tiny!! :)
you also mentioned stability. my local kayak shop told me its one of the trickiest boats to keep upright til you get it going so i was interested to hear you find it stable.

back to the tracer cockpit size, i have wide hips and could stand to lose a few lbs so i am curious to see how i do. as a reference, i tried the tampico 140s and 140L yesterday. the 140S was tight and not comfortable, but it had a touring seat with metal plates on the sides to keep you from utilizing the inside space under the initial opening.

the 140L however i was told had the exact same mold but with a rec seat and without the metal panels i fit super comfy with plenty of wiggle room. so if i fit well in the tracer and can control the "tippy" i will get the other one.

however, if it is too small or too tippy for me i really like the tampico 140L and may look at that. i hear it is pretty fast for its size compared to other 14' boats, but if husband has the tracer i dont see me keeping up...
or would i?

airlte
nice… too bad im not closer.

im on the gulf coast and there isnt a very big market here for touring or sea boats. mostly rec and fishing. so we dont get too many used offers for what i want. even the stores dont carry many new, so i am hard pressed to even try one out. one of our best kayak shops in the area only carries 4 models over 14’

so i come here for advice :slight_smile:

Just an example
of what you can find with patience and a willingness to travel a bit.

The Tampico 140S is VERY straight/
hard tracking and doesn’t turn easily.



If the 140L has the same hull, but just different cockpit, I’d strongly encourage you to test paddle before buying, unless you don’t mind working hard to turn a boat.

Turning the tampico
Yea ive paddled the 135 and it took a wide girth to turn it, but so does my perception sot, which is basically a 31" barge :slight_smile: so im used to it.

But my bigger concern is keeping up with the husband as he just bought the tracer 165.

I can live with the turning issue i think.

Keeping up

– Last Updated: Jun-13-13 2:22 PM EST –

It happens often that not everyone in a group has the same level of strength and skill and kayak capability. So the rule is that faster members go at the pace of slower members.

That could be applied to a couple as well. Get the kayak that suits your needs and your build. If necessary your husband can modify his pace. His goal is to have a pleasant time with you, not just go fast, right? Slowing down a bit does not actually cause pain.

Generally a 14-footer can keep pace reasonably well with a 16-footer. 12 and 17 feet would create an imbalance, but 14 and 16 feet is a close enough match.

140S and 140L
not sure what you mean by metal plates. To my knowledge there are no metal plates inside any Hurricane cockpit. Could you give more info?



Thigh braces: Those are made of plastic. The 140S is equipped w. them, the 140L is not. Thigh braces actually help w. turning as they are a huge advantage in edging. They also help w. bracing which is another plus in preventing capsizes. And of course make rolling a lot easier if you want to try that some day.



The 140S has the low backband - actually with good form just as comfortable as the high one -which promotes good posture/good forward stroke - and which has the bonus of not being an obstacle during self rescues.



The 140L has the higher seatback. The higher seatback often leads to ppl slumping and therefore not engaging their abdominal muscles as much as they could. Also leads a paddler to scrape over it, often on their belly doing a self rescue. which isn’t always fun. And is harder for many folks.



I owned a 135S (a slighter shorter and lowerdecked predecessor of the 140S, which also turned a lot better than the 140S does - I have paddled both).



Honestly the 140S felt like a de-tuned version of the 135S - it’s got a lot more volume that I didn’t need, which meant the fit suffered, and all the things that come w. that. It didn’t turn nearly as well -it’s a very tracky boat, as is the 140L. The integrated stern skeg (not a moveable skeg of course, a shaped stern end that acts like a skeg)

But it was just as quick as a 140S. You can set a nice pace and pretty efficiently with either a 140S or 135S, and that would hold true as well for a 140L.



Whether I could keep up w. a Tracer 165 would depend how good a paddler I was and how good the Tracer paddler was. And of course the faster paddler could be nice and slow up every now n then.


140S & L
i think i have seen them refered to as hip plates.



they tend to keep you from “spreading out” so to speak in the cockpit area underneath the opening. no clue if that makes any sense but without pointing to in on a picture i dont know how else to describe it :slight_smile:



at any rate these made me feel a little too tight in the 140S and is why im looking at the L model.



i do wish the L had the thigh braces though as i would like to learn to manuever correctly, however i can spread my knees a bit and lodge them under the edge of the opening comfortably and hope that will work.



as for the turning, i assumed a boat of that type would be a little hard anyway, and i think id rather trade some manueverability for better tracking as we intend to use them in large bodies of water and save the winding rivers for the rec boats.



of course the more i look the more boats i find that i would like to try… i think instead of asking which one out of a certain set would be best i need to ask for advice on ANY boat that may fill the needs described in my original post :slight_smile:

140S and 140L
thanks for the post. This is one situation where a picture is worth 2,000 words :slight_smile:



So you are saying these “plates” are in the 140S but not in the 140L?



In any case the 140S is too tight for you so I see why the 140L interests you. Many ppl enjoy the Tampicos and I was once one of them in my 135S.Which I really loved my first two years of paddling. I sold it at the beginning of year 3 because I found it limited me but we all have our own goals in paddling.



Not saying it’s a bad boat - not at all. There are several features that make it less appealing to me, but that’s me. You may be able to make it work fine, for your purposes and your style of paddling, and that’s all that matters.



Do you get to test paddle it? That would be good. If you can take it out on a breezy day and try to turn it both into and away from the wind, that would be a good test before you buy it. I’d do that with any boat, but esp. with one that was a “tracker”. Good luck and keep us posted!

Length - what’s in the water matters…
not overall length.

OMG!!
husband just got home with his new tracer and i fit in it much better than i thought i would :slight_smile:



may have to see if that other used one i found is still available.



but first to see if i can keep it upright!

Tracer cockpit fit is very similar to
Tampico 140S, IIRC from Canoecopia last year.

Once you each have a boat…
Go to a local pond after viewing videos or find an outfitter who can work with you on assisted rescues - as in on the water, not going to shore. With two paddlers and boats that have air in each end, a capsize should be a total non-event. It will leave you both a lot more comfortable, both because you got by the first capsize and because now you know how to handle it.

i think i made a choice…
i actually didnt care for the tracer once i tried it. the tippiness didnt bother me so much, i just felt it was harder to maneuver than i wanted and i wasnt greatly impressed by the tracking on calm water. i had tried the tampico and tsunami just prior and they just felt better.



someone posted earlier about the tampico being hard to turn and i would agree. plus no thigh pads on 140L.



i think i am about 90% certain i am going with the tsunami 140. it turns well, i feel very stable when i practiced my edging, and the speed wasnt terrible. a bit slower than the tampico but not enough to measure really. its alot heavier than i like but thats what husband is for :slight_smile:



i thank everyone here for the valuable input. all of your advice played into my decision process more than you know. i feel wiser for it


demo them
If you can, try the boats before you put down the $$. A trial of several hours on some bigger water means a lot more than a few minutes near the dock.



I could tell you my opinion, but it might not apply.



Last year another club member and I bought CD Storm GT’s from the same dealer, the same day. They were three year old demo boats. We both like our boats, but have very different descriptions of how they feel. He thinks they are twitchy and sensitive, and seldom edges, but uses bow rudder for tight turns. I think mine is a barge, and edge till the spray skirt is all that keeps me from swamping, and think bow rudder costs to much speed loss. Size may be a factor. I am 5’ 9" 165 # while he is a couple inches taller and forty pounds heavier.



Longer boats are more forgiving in big water when the wind blows.



Harry