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The Kayaking Popularity Explosion

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  • "DUUJ" hasn't posted in the entire
    thread. Probably a marketing parasite trolling for ideas.

    There hasn't been one new idea in this entire thread, and it all belongs on the Discussion Forum.
  • Waiting for the spate of similar posts
    In the past, posts like the OP's often accompanied a slough of other suspiciously troll-like posts in a spell of a couple weeks. Always posted by a no-profile or brand-new profile poster of unknown background.

    I remember at least one other thread by DUUJ in which I thought a marketing troller was sniffing out the premises. Gonna do an archive search now...
  • But didn't canoeing popularity explode
    after the movie "Deliverance" came out in the 70's??? (You can't simply attribute it's rise back then, to the way Ned Beatty took it in the behind...Squeal!WWWeee-ee!)

    Fads come, fads go. All I know is all the amateurs are gone after Labor Day--And most will take the SUP crowd with them.
  • No, it didn't. I lived nearby back then
    and the main "explosion" was in cheap rafts and garbage paddles. The growth in whitewater canoeing around Atlanta was already underway. I never saw any indication that the moderate growth in canoeing was related to Deliverance.

    Claude Terry and Doug Woodward were in our club. They were kayakers as much as canoeists. Payson and Aurelia Kennedy, and Horace Holden, were club members, and founded NOC on the Nantahala.

    All the new ww canoeists I knew, back in the 70s, were well aware of how much skill had to be developed to paddle the Chattooga, or even the Nantahala. While we considered Deliverance a good book and a good movie, we thought Burt Reynolds et al were greenhorns who were taking stupid chances.
  • I believe Spiritboat is correct
    -- Last Updated: Jul-07-13 7:33 PM EST --

    I have often read that the biggest canoe-sales volume that the Grumman company ever had in their history, by far, occurred right after that movie came out. I think the boom lasted a couple of years, but was most pronounced shortly after the movie first started playing. I can't say what other long-time canoe "standards" experienced, such as companies like Old Town, but that's what happened for Grumman.

    I think what you saw is attributable to the fact that rank amateurs getting started with their brand-new canoe aren't likely to show up at the same places as the hard-core whitewater folks that you hung out with. That said, I think it was Bob (thebob.com) who once quoted some source that talked about several amateur canoers dying in difficult rapids shortly after the movie came out, with those rapids being the type where paddlers of such a skill level were normally not ever seen.

  • It is true.
    I got into a Grumman for the first time myself back then. Age=16. Two week trip down the Delaware. The explosion I cited was in general canoe sales and popularity. NOT necessarily whitewater.

    ...And by the way, g2d: The name-dropping of your so-called legends impresses absolutely NOBODY.

    Now squeal, wwweeee-wwweee-wwweee!!!
  • It's not a matter of your being
    impressed. It's a matter of helping you to not repeat suburban legends. In this case, guideboat's imagining notwithstanding, Deliverance pumped up the cheap raft industry, but not canoeing.

    You think I didn't know those guys personally? Seriously?
  • DUUJ still not back.
    Maybe drowned in the floods. All that marketing research down the tubes.
  • Suburban legend?
    -- Last Updated: Jul-09-13 7:56 PM EST --

    I'm not a suburban guy--But here's a reference from the book, "The Grumman Story"...Please note next to last sentence in paragraph below, referencing how many sold in 1974...

    "Hoffman and Achilich influenced canoeing in the last half of the twentieth century like few others, by introducing light, rugged boats at an easily affordable price," the magazine wrote. A Grumman canoe, Paddler publisher and editor Eugene Buchanan said recently, could take a beating. "You could put the wife and kids and kitchen sink in the thing and ram it into rocks," he said. The public bought thousands. A 1975 brochure cited sales of more than 300,000 Grumman canoes in 30 years. Demand peaked in 1974 with sales of 33,000, propelled by the 1972 movie "Deliverance" and concerns about fuel consumption during the mid-'70s energy crisis."

    And I don't care who you knew, or what anybody else paddles for that matter...And now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to banjo practice.

  • Well.....I just asked the question.....
    ...And you never thought it had relavance.:)
  • I was wrong about the year,...
    ... but that sounds a lot like what I've read a couple of other places. My older brother bought a Grumman in 1974, and during a very short time period right about then, it seemed like all manner of small stores were stocking Grummans. I'm sure that was never the case a few years earlier, and I know for a fact that it was never the case later on. Those were good years for Grumman, "despite g2d's imaginings".

    My brother bought his Grumman from a little neighborhood hardware store in 1974, a place that had no history whatsoever selling boats of any kind before that time. They actually stocked quite a few, and my brother chose one that had a little scratch on it already and was therefore discounted. Interestingly, it was Grumman's heavy-duty model with extra ribs and a shoe keel, a style that's a bit rare overall, and I can't help but wonder if the little hardware store was catering to people who had visions of doing whitewater since it would make no sense to stock anything other than the standard model 99 percent of the time.
  • Fishing
    I bike with the manager of a local sporting goods store. Today he told me that he's selling many, many fishing kayaks and hardly any touring boats. Apparently word has gotten around how great it is to fish from a kayak.
  • Fishing Kayaks
    I see more of those than I ever expected to.
    All of my fishing buds told me canoes were to narrow and you couldn't move around enough in them to fish properly.
    How is a kayak better for fishing?
    But they are out there. I see them.
    Crazy.
  • I can spell relevance, and I can post
    relevantly. You can take up space on the wrong forum if you want to, especially because you're totally anonymous.
  • It's just PR. I ran into
    a paddle mag article in which Payson Kennedy and Claude Terry said specifically that the explosion in canoeing interest and purchasing was already underway before Deliverance appeared. I don't know why they would say that if they didn't believe it.

    Mad River, Blue Hole, and Moore were already making and selling new boats before Deliverance. I believe Sawyer was also. Grummans were cheaper. Maybe they profited from the presence of the new designs from smaller manufacturers.
  • Options
    I think it started with Ocean Kayaks
    Before I saw any kayaks in my neck of the woods, in the mid-1990s I started seeing Ocean Kayaks as rental boats at resorts down in the Caribbean. Resorts I had been to just a couple of years before when they had none, had them. I guess Ocean Kayak did a great job of aggressively marketing them to big resort chains like Westin, probably selling them at break even or even at a loss to get them out there, get people hooked on them on vacation. I'll admit, it worked on me, I started searching around for them. Then in the late 1990s I started seeing OKs for sale in higher end sporting goods chains like REI here in Texas. Being a poor college student I wanted one, but put off buying it until I finished grad school and got my first decent paying job in 2000, when I got an OK Frenzy. At that time, paddling on the Texas coast, I would constantly be stopped by people asking me where I got that cool little boat. In 2 or 3 years, I started seeing other paddlers occasionally, and then started seeing them offered for rent down here. By 2005, they had exploded and were everywhere, still with OK dominating at first, but quickly as people realized there was a boom going on they started opening paddlesports stores, and then offering other SOTs and then offering SINKS.
  • Options
    Has anyone ever listened to you?
    What percentage of times you have chastised someone for posting here have they actually moved their thread to Paddler's Place? If it has happened at all, I have never seen it, all that results is some people make fun of you for being self-important and then ignore you and keep talking. Why bother?
  • Options
    I am a fishing kayak-to-canoe convert
    I bought a SOT before the kayak fishing craze got started, and then once all the other kayaks showed up in the waters I had had to myself, and started fishing, I thought I might as well try. For the Gulf side, certainly a kayak is preferred, but on the bay side, I started thinking that maybe a canoe could afford me more space for gear and to handle the fish I caught, as well as being more comfortable, and so I bought one and found out I was right on all counts.
  • Options
    Suspicion of DUUJ as "marketing parasite
    Even if DUUJ is here looking for marketing information, what exactly is wrong with that? If he is looking for ideas of what kinds of paddling products to create or market, or ideas about what paddling consumers think or want, wouldn't you rather he do it here, and get the information from us, so that what he sells would be based on our wants rather than someone else?
  • That's What I've Come to Believe
    There was a thread recently that I suspected originated from some kayak maker or another. The question was basically "Would you prefer a big oval, leaky hatch/cover or smaller, round, and water-tight?

    I VOTE ROUND AND WATER-TIGHT!!!!

    The big oval bastard on my Alchemy leaks like a screen door.
  • Why not read the forum guidelines
    and use them? This DUUJ garbage thread is exactly the sort of thing that belongs on the Discussion Forum, but not here.

    I have little sense of self importance, but I find garbage posts offensive.
  • Because it does not fit the
    forum guidelines, and in addition, it is a garbage topic.
  • Options
    May I see your badge please?
    Just to confirm that you are the duly appointed forum cop, charged with enforcing forum guidelines and rating the quality of everyone's posts?
  • Options
    What does it matter?
    Is it really hurting anything for it to be here? And who the hell are you to decide what are garbage posts? Plenty of us don't find it garbage or else we would ignore it, like you should do if you see posts that don't meet your ridiculous standards. Ridiculous that you would be offended by the post, you have some serious issues if you are so easily offended. Get a grip.
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