Keel Eazy Problems?????

Improper fix, but holding
I had some keel easy peeling off my stern. The gooey adhesive was sticking to the hull, but the keel easy was pulling away anyway.



I’m pretty sure the proper fix would have involved replacing the keel easy, or at least peeling it back and cleaning the adhesive off the hull, then resticking the keel easy with an appropriate adhesive. But, I planned to paddle the same day and decided to try a quick and dirty fix. I did clean what I could get to with alcohol, then I appliedd a small amount of SikaBond Universal and taped, tied, and wedged the keel easy against the hull. That was about noon, and I paddled the boat at about 5pm. The product instruction says “tacky in two hours, full bond in 5-8 days.” I’ve paddled the boat at least ten times since and the keel easy is still sticking. It’s a little early to declare victory, but so far so good.



I found SikaBond Universal at the Lowes one day when I was looking for something to stick wiring inside my cockpit. It comes in a caulking tube. I stood and read product descriptions of caulking and adhesive products for about an hour. Surprisingly, very few of the construction adhesives claim to stand up under prolonged immersion and to be waterproof, as SikaBond Universal does.



It probably wasn’t the “right way” to fix it, but it was quick. Usually fast and easy is not compatible with effective and long lasting, but I’m hoping for a rare exception on this one.



~~Chip


Heat and patience
Using a heat gun on 500w setting I just applied it to the bow of an Epic 18 which has quite the plumb bow and with heat, roller and patience you can manually thermoform it to the shape. The real trick was the stern that has the part-o-the-hull rudder with flip down skeg. Same process but then cut the tape occluding the skeg, away and carefully made even rounding to the slot with the tip of the razor knife.



Fun with melted vinyl.



See you on the water,

Marshall

The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

www.the-river-connection.com

hudsonriverpaddler.org

Update…
I went back and reapplied heat to the keel strip in the spots where it was peeling off. This seemed to help…for about one use.



The keel strip is now peeling off so badly in so many places that it needs to come off and be replaced or I need to just go without.



I think I have a total of about 6 days on the water with the keel strip. For $80 for the material I certainly would have hoped it would last longer than that.



I did follow the instructions that were on their Youtube video. Perhaps the hull needs a better scrubbing prior to application, but the video said just to use a cloth.



I may try again, but am not sure that I want to gamble $80 on it.



It is possible that this product just is not suitable for the lateral stresses that will be placed on it when launching and landing in the surf zone. There is really no way to launch and land repeatedly in the surf without subjecting the boat to lateral or torsional friction as you have to straighten the boat out as the surf pushes you off axis when launching, or when getting violently side surfed all the way to the beach.



I have emailed the company, but they never emailed back. I find that a bit annoying.



It is a neat product and a neat idea, but if it is not going to last under real conditions and given that it is about $80 for a $15 strip of tape, I am not sure that I am sold, especially given the lack of response from the company.



Maybe I am wrong but that I my impression at this point.







Matt

Rec’Repair
Seems to offer an alternative. I might use it as soon as I see problems developing with the current KealEazy bow skid late I have on my kayak…more expensive and way thicker !!!

http://www.recrepair.com/skid_plates.html

Opinion and innuendo, not so much facts
The guy who runs that KeelEazy operation is Chris Mitchell. I think he is sort of a one-man operation. I suspect he will get back to you, eventually. There’s no reason I think that other than he is a small operation and he could be traveling or something.



What I have read about KeelEazy is that the adhesive doesn’t go all the way to the sides of the strips, and that they expect the glue to squeeze out to the edge during application. Maybe that can be done in a perfect manner, or maybe there is always going to be some voids along the edge. I expect there are voids in your application, and that is all that sand and water need to start working the edges. Like you say, lateral forces on the beach… pretty soon your KE is hanging off. I’ve never applied it, so this is just based on my reading about it.



Seems to me you have to make sure the edges are really nailed down, and it wouldn’t hurt to have a bit of material extending beyond the edge of the KE that could be feathered to prevent sand from grabbing at the edges when the boat is pushed sideways. I expect that if you are going to go to that length, you’d be just as well off epoxying fiberglass tape onto the hull instead of KE.



~~Chip

This stuff is expensive!

– Last Updated: Sep-02-13 5:34 PM EST –

Comes to about $30-$40 per foot for the 4"x25" skid plates at $150 a pair... The 1.5" width comes to about $1 per inch! Ouch! KeelEazy is what, $4 per foot for a 2" width?

well…
I had to rip it off tonight. It was just way too far gone to salvage. I was able to keep the end parts on though for the timebeing.



When I inspected the tape I found that some parts were cemented down quite securely and other parts were not.



In the spots where it was not, it seemed that the adhesive had separated from the tape itself, rather than from the boat. The adhesive was intact on the boat and the tape had ripped free from it.



I will concede that it is possible that maybe I overheated it…??? I am not sure.



My heat gun only has two settings–high and low. I used high.



While I have not gotten a response back from the company, I did get one back from the dealer and they said they would send me a new length of tape (the kayak academy).



I will give it a try again I guess. Hopefully this time it will work out better.



Which heat setting would be more appropriate for my heat gun…high or low???



Matt

So what I am understanding is…
it may not be the best material to use for protection on a Thermoformed kayak that rages in the surf?


Adhesive separating from tape
That’s the same thing I observed where my KeelEazy was peeling away. The adhesive layer was stuck firmly (perhaps gooeyly) to the boat, but the tape was coming up. My KE was applied by a boat-building professional (Sterling Daniels), so there is a good probability he knew what he was doing and applied it properly.



Not that it means anything, but Chris Mitchell, the KE guy, was hanging around Sterling’s shop when I picked the boat up after it was repaired and the KE installed. Seems like Sterling would have had the opportunity to learn installation technique from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.



~~Chip

No thanks…
I used KE on my Valley Rapier 20 and the stuff peeled right off no matter how much I cleaned the hull first. Chris M sent me out another batch for free and that stuff came right off too.



I am surprised that your’s lasted as long as it did, Matt… I will be going with real keel strips in the future, especially on surf/rock hopping boats.

KeelEazy
Hi Everyone,

This is Chris from KeelEazy and I wanted to update you on our latest development in the KeelEazy product line. We have started shipping Keeleazy with the adhesive running the full width of the strip which seems to work better around the tight corners. However, when the adhesive shows on the side it can attract more sand.

Cleaning is the key to a successful application as some of you sugggested. We use and recommend Isopropyl Alcohol 80-90%. Of course, you can use Acetone on gel-coat. No sanding necessary. We use a heat gun at about 500 watts. The procedure we have the best result with is to tact one end, pull straight to the other end, apply pressure down the center of the strip, then starting from the middle, use the heat gun to to warm the tape and following with an insulated leather glove applying pressure evenly along the strip. On the ends we warm the tape and smooth tape outwardly from the center.

Too much heat will burn the PVC and might be a reason that the adhesive separates from the PVC.

We have found that some Marine paints have additives that don’t adhere well (like wax). We offer free sample of the material for boaters to apply to their boats prior to purchasing a full length.

We only guarantee the installation on boats that we do the install on as it is impossible to for us to be sure the procedure was followed. The same is true with fiberglass products. I have Keeleazy on all my boats and regularly have them in surf and sand. As a matter of fact, that is the reason I spent two years prior to launching the product test many different types of material. I hope this sheds some light on Keeleazy and it’s application.



Cheers,



Chris

it’s called KEELeasy
Sort of sounds like it goes over the keel, which is not flat.

KeelEazy

– Last Updated: Sep-05-13 4:04 PM EST –

@Chris... Thanks for the detailed explanation, please Chris add these heating suggestions to your instructions or FAQ, the 500W seems to be very important.. Thanks again, I did had some minor issues with the sharp curves my Tarpon 120 bow is having, I do have some wrinkles on the sides which I cannot seem to remove with the heat gun at 500W..

good man
Thank you for responding in person in this forum. Not every manufacturer has the integrity to do something like that.

Keeleazy
You are welcome. As someone mentioned previously Keeleazy is currently a one and a half man show and we try to do the best we can. By the end of October we should have two more full timers on board to offer better customer service. I will be on the road more to be attending events and training Keeleazy installers.



Cheers



Chris

trying again
Kayak Academy (where I ordered my Keeleazy from) is sending me a new roll free of charge.



I am going to try again and see how it works this time.



I used your Youtube video as a guide for my installation and followed the same procedure.



In doing the installation again I will be sure to clean the hull very thoroughly.



I also may get a new heat gun so that I can ensure it is a 500W or has that setting. My current one only has high and low. I used High.



I think that the adhesive going all the way to the edge would likely solve this problem.



I will try again and will follow the installation instructions explicitly and then will report my results here.



Matt

Heat guns

– Last Updated: Sep-07-13 8:43 AM EST –

Be careful, as an example my Milwaukee heat gun has a high and low setting as well and the manual claims that the low setting is around 570 F air temp and the high can go as high as 1000F, the latter might be way too high.....The heat gun is rated for 11 amp, hence I assume the high setting load is over the 1000 watt capacity...

The distance is important too
I have a fully adjustable heat gun and it makes a huge difference how far way I hold it and for how long in one spot. Unfortunately, the only way to tell how much is enough is not easy to figure out. I have very limited experience working with the heat gun to shape plastic material, but my observation is that the material will visibly relax and become pliable at one point, then you should immediately remove the heat, shape the material, and wait for it to cool, so that it holds the new shape after you let go. If you heat further, the material deforms too much and might lose it’s strength or even begin to burn.





I think with KeelEazy you can probably feel the same with the tape and rely on the adhesive to hopefully hold long enough while you are pressing down and cooling off the strip, so it remains shaped per the surface it is being installed on. But because it is somewhat soft to begin with and there is strong adhesive, it is hard to determine how much the adhesive holds and how much the thermoforming is contributing to the shape. The only places that this is obvious is at curves, where if you do not put enough heat the corners will lift and be wavy (but I don’t think it will be obvious if you apply too much heat)…

well…

– Last Updated: Sep-08-13 8:57 AM EST –

I did some research. I think that the 500 refers to the temperature of the heat gun and not the wattage. I just went back and referred to the installation video on Youtube.

From what I looked at online, it appears that most heatguns have two settings at 750 and 1000.

I found one that has a 500 degree setting. I am going to order it and try that when I re-install. There should be no reason this time that any issues with the tape staying in place will be a factor of installation error. The procedure is pretty straightforward as you can see on the Youtube video.

I do think that having the glue go all the way to the edge would be helpful.

When is that going to be available and from where?

Matt

adhesive
It is available now and Kayak Academy has it in stock.