Definitive definition of rec kayak

Respectfully, no.
I don’t think one can say very much about a person and their mental attitudes, etc., from how easily their kayak may be drained of water. And after thinking about it, I’m sure you will agree.

There is some experience here…
“I don’t think one can say very much about a person and their mental attitudes, etc., from how easily their kayak may be drained of water. And after thinking about it, I’m sure you will agree”.



Actually the more I think about it the more I remember being at clinics and telling people that they should be careful because the boat could just sink if they capsize. I got replies like, “yea we know we’re fine” or … “we really don’t plan on capsizing” or “we’ll just swim in”. If you are saying that we should never judge anyone’s mental attitude, yes, I agree you’re right. I now say nothing about safety to rec boat paddlers because I feel it’s like harassment since they really don’t want any advice or someone to ruin their habit of carefree paddling. And yes, maybe that’s the way it should be.

yes, but
might not an experienced and knowledgeable kayaker, someone familiar with rescues and safety issues, take out a recreational kayak on a local pond? You know, just for a lark; perhaps it fits nicely in the back of his truck.

How could you know this by looking at the boat? You know, someone paddling a sea kayak can be inexperienced and foolish. And none of these things has anything to do with how much water remains in a kayak’s hull when it is righted after a capsize.



But I’d agree that anyone refusing good advice is making a mistake.

Look at the paddler
the novice is likely to have it somewhere on the back deck. The accomplished paddler have it on.





Not talking sanctioned races. I know skilled paddlers do not wear them then all the time.



Unfortunately unsolicited advice is rarely taken in the spirit it is given. So I stopped.

Reminds Me of an Encounter
My buddies and I were putting in at a fairly secluded spot some years back. Another guy and some of his family were also getting ready to launch. This guy wanted to talk about his kayak so I was polite and listened. Did he talk about how well it tracked? Turned? Rolled? Edged? How fast it was? How well it surfed? Naw. None of the above. He went on and on and on about how much stuff he could get in it. I don’t care what boat he paddled, he was a ‘recreational’ paddler. If that makes me a snob then I guess I’m a snob.

who cares?

– Last Updated: Sep-04-13 2:53 PM EST –

Not directing this at you, you just wandered into the scope. But honestly - how much obsessing can we do over rec boats and casual paddlers?

Do we really think this obsessing and handwringing helps grow the sport? Do we think every kayaker ought to progress to exactly the point we are at?

(Mariner kayaks were designed with no bulkheads but are some of the most seaworthy kayaks you can paddle)

OK, I'm sorry for my outburst. Everyone has the right to discuss whatever (this is a case where I really agree with G2D though). In my mind the point of sale is when the use of the product should be made clear.

Uh, no…
A rec kayak is a rec kayak when you look at it and you say “Hey, that’s a rec kayak.” No flipping or measuring water levels is necessary. You look and you say “Oh, such a nice cup holder!” and then you say “Oh my, and no thigh braces!” and “Golly, no flotation in the front except maybe a little foam block” and “Wow, such a big cockpit” and “Ah, such a nice wide stable boat.”

I don’t know about everyone else,
but I find paddling very recreational. If I didn’t I wouldn’t invest in all that stuff. I understand the spirit of the argument of course, but I wish we could come up with a better term for the aforementioned goobers other than rec boater, because IMO that’s not a moniker that deserves to become a pejorative. My daughter is getting a Dagger Zydeco for her eleventh birthday. That’s a rec boat fo sho, but it’s a darned good one. I’ll equip it with floatation and enlist the help of buddies (I’m what my yakking friends affectionately call an SOB; scruffy open boater) to teach her good technique, and she’s worn NRS Vistas since she was out of the little kid PFDs. There’s a good chance she’ll quickly progress past the “rec paddler” stage, but if she doesn’t that’s fine. She’ll be with me on trips making me smile.

“Goobers”?
How about we identify what makes them goobers, or whatever else you want to call them.

maybe he presumed you had a depth of
knowledge about his kayak, and overestimated you. Maybe he thought all of those characteristics should be apparent to you as an experienced kayaker.



I’m not sold. I know more than one sea kayaker who talks about how much he can fit into his boat.

Fair enough.
In my mind river dork and goober are interchangeable terms. He/she already knows everything, doesn’t “need” a PFD even after being rescued several times, drinks to rowdy excess, endangers others’ safety and adversely impacts their paddling enjoyment with their behavior, etc.

You’re Reachin’ Slush
By your logic I would also know how much his boat could hold. He was going on and on about capacity because that’s what he values. The guy was 95% camper and 5% boater. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. It’s just not me. Some folks drive little sports cars and others drive vans.



I don’t doubt that you know experienced kayakers who also value load capacity but this guy wasn’t it.

I got it.
…and you were there, I wasn’t. Plus I imagine the boat was empty at the time!



Some people do tend to fixate on one attribute of their new purchase, whatever it may be.

I like river dork
I know people like that. River Dork sounds good.



I think the forum ought to come up with a definition so we can say what we mean and leave the truly “rec” kayaker alone.

River Dork it is! Henceforth
I’ll use RD. Not So Little Deuce (formerly Little Deuce) and I were paddling around last night and she pestered me for hints regarding her birthday present. I have a very hard time telling her no, but I managed to keep the hints vague enough that she didn’t ferret out the truth.

boat capacity
can be quite important if you like to go on multi-day trips–

The visual clues are blatant…

– Last Updated: Sep-06-13 11:35 PM EST –

Many seasoned paddlers can tell very quickly with just
a momentary glance what was built to perform versus
just float to provide a splashing fun time.

Performance

– Last Updated: Sep-08-13 5:09 AM EST –

There's that key word again.

Since they're all recreational, how about performance boats vs goober boats?

This thread could be misunderstood

– Last Updated: Sep-07-13 9:54 AM EST –

This is all in fun and not intended to be critical of others. But - someone reading this thread who is new to Kayaking might be offended. We should keep that in mind. A large percentage of the paddling.net readers are new and we want this forum to be welcoming and friendly. Looking back at my comments - and the comments of some others - I fear we may have crossed a line here and I wonder if the administrator of the forum might consider deleting this thread.

I guess my bottom line is that I see no reason to debate the definition of a recreational kayak. What the heck difference does it make anyway? We all sound pretty elitist and unwelcoming when you go back and read this one. I know it was not intended to be that way, but that is the definite impression you get when you read this thread. So for my part - apologies to all recreational paddlers out there - truth is 99.9% of us are just that - recreational paddlers and we all want to bring new people into this wonderful activity. We welcome you all with open arms. I for one am no expert and at my age I doubt I ever will be. The sport of paddling has enriched my life beyond my wildest imagination and I am thankful for the paddlers that helped bring me along into the sport.

Agree
In the bicycle world you have better description. Racing bikes; mountain bikes; beach cruisers; etc. Someone high up in the kayak industry came up with the awful catch-all word “recreational” and no one had the clout to knock it down.