Similar to OT Penobscot

I don’t understand the question
I really don’t want to change the performance. I love the versatility of the Penobscot, paddle solo or tandem, decent speed, solo trip with a load and a dog. I still want those qualities just want it lighter.

You will have to go composite
I agree that to achieve any significant weight savings in a tandem canoe over the Penobscot 16 Rx you will have to look at a composite.



I too would look for a used Bell NorthStar if you could find one. It is 4 inches longer than the Penobscot with just about the same maximum beam but 2 inches narrower at the waterline so it should be at least as fast. It does have a bit of rocker, unlike the Penobscot, which I would consider a good thing. Paddles well solo and tandem.



I hadn’t heard of a Bell Composites North Wind 16. The picture and specs on the Oak Orchard canoe site are taken directly from the Bell site. It may well be that Ted is building a boat identical to the NorthStar, but I would look into it further if you are interested.

Kevlar Mad River Explorer
slower, but a lot lighter

What I mean is that
royalex has performance characteristics that are different than composite. Generally composite will be stiffer and that makes it perform differently. So if you like the characteristics of a flexible (royalex) hull then you are not going to find anything lighter I don’t think. But if a stiffer hull is ok for you - then sure you can spend a lot more and get a lighter boat.

I wish I knew the answer,
but I totally get the question. I love the Penobscot, but I’d love it more if it was 10-20 pounds lighter.

You’re right, but a Royalex boat can be
stiffened quite a bit by putting foam pedestals or struts between the thwarts and the bottom of the boat.



And we tend to assume that composite boats are stiff, but there can be exceptions. If you don’t know the maker, I would want to have inspected their boats. Making a composite boat both light and stiff is a real challenge. The better makers today are using foam core bottoms, but those are hard to repair, and have been known to snap when a loaded boat is pulled over a log. Souris River uses ribs, but I’ve read reports of apparent fatigue damage. I have a Millbrook ww boat that has sides as thin as cardboard, but the bottom is stiffened with Spheretex. Probably better than foam core for whitewater, but not as light.



Selecting a composite design with a significantly curved shallow arch bottom, and with curved tumblehome sides, will provide a measure of stiffness and perhaps allow less cloth to be used in the layup.

All true - but
if the OP is paddling in any significant shallow white water with boulder hits likely he would be pushing the limits of a light layup composite boat. Sure, if you are expert, a light boat can be just the ticket. But for many a royalex boat might be the best choice. I once owned a 50 Lbs 16 foot prospector boat in a composite layup and it was fine - terrific actually - in white water so long as there was plenty of water. Without a lot of water it would take a real beating, and this was a heavy layup. I loved the boat but it was not the best choice in a shallow white water environment.

Not to worry
about the fragile nature of composite boats. As we age a couple of things work in our favor here: First, we shy away from the from the really rough stuff where we are apt to bang up the boats and, because our clock is running, they don’t have to last that long anyway. A friend once asked, as I was pussy-footing around some rocks in a composite, “you saving that boat for the next owner”?



Peter


Novacraft Pal?
Anyone paddle one of the composite versions?

Wenonah sundowner ?

– Last Updated: Oct-07-13 12:20 AM EST –

Not sure if they'll make it in composite

Escapade with center seat?

http://www.wenonah.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=23&SID=b5803bc16f8c6b7fdee781a33e179a29

Question for OP
Why is it important to you that your canoe be lighter than 60 Lbs? When is it that the weight is causing troubles for you?

The Penobscot, I own is…
15 years old, and showing the thousands of miles it has seen. Thinking of retiring it, so why not go lighter when hitting the portage trail?



You are correct that 60lbs isn’t very heavy especially for a royalex canoe. Just considering alternatives.

A used Kevlar canoe
Or new

Yea,…
Just trying to figure out which one.

I agree

– Last Updated: Oct-08-13 12:03 PM EST –

We use our Jensen 17 on lots of rivers, with rocks.
After a few years of scrapes here and there, I just touch them up with epoxy
I only use our Penobscot in real shallow or class II rivers

Jack L

Pal
I own a pal and have paddled the Pnob. The are similar,but not the same. The pal is more a flatwater boat,the Pnob a little more moving water capible. Both are goot at being paddled solo if necessary.



Turtle

Questions
First, I’m a little surprised that you said the Penobscot is better in moving water. Doesn’t the Pal have rocker? What feature makes the Penobscot better in the moving water?



What material and what is the weight of the Pal?



Thanks

comparison
My pal is royalite,but I have paddled one of the light composit ones ,and it was similar to mine.To me the Bnob turned a better.It also has more freeboard. My son and I took my Pal down a class 2esh stream,and it didn’t do well and we got wet even before we dumped. It is a sweet boat easy paddling boat in flat water,and with it’s low freeboard,little bothered by the wind.

Turtle

P16
I agree with rpg51, including that compromise is the operative word. Royalex is incredibly durable but you pay for that with weight and some loss in efficiency. The OT P16 is a cool boat in that it is efficient, can be turned decently, takes ClassII rapids, can be set up for solo, and is light for a Royalex boat. The alternatives are similar design in Royalite or… a composite, the latter which IMOP will require good maneuvering skills and adequate water. Yes, Kevlar composite does take abuse but not the constant banging and grinding plastic can endure from bony shallow creeks, let alone a wrap around a rock. It is sort of a judgment call based on how and where you paddle, or want to paddle, or are willing to not paddle. So, seriously, why not have one of each :)? For a composite, do test paddle a Jensen 18 w/ a front slider seat) just because it is soooo much fun (several mfg’s offer this hull; typically 38 lbs Kevlar). For some outfitters Wenonah builds Kevlar boats with bow/stern skid plates (really helps durability), maybe you can order one with that feature, or buy used from an outfitter, or perhaps other mfgs will accommodate the same idea. Note that it may be difficult to convert some of the other designs to work solo in the same manner as the P16, it is just really good for that. So that would make three boats, or four if you paddling partner wants to solo as well. No, I am not in the garage expansion business.

I’ve had a Penobscot…
…and still have access to it. We’ve paddled it side by side with the Malecite, and paddled the Malecite sxs with a Wenonah Escapade. Not a lot of difference in the performance, but the composite boats are a little more efficient - the Escapade seemingly the most so.



Gotta take exception to claims of superiority of rx boats in bony rivers. I spend a lot of time on bony water, class 1 & 2, and my Millbrook kev/glass Coho shows less damage from dragging than my heavyweight rx NC Prospector. The Millbrook takes some pretty stout glancing blows with little or no noticeable damage too. The difference comes into play, I think, with heavier blunt blows in deeper heavier current - or in a wrap situation.