Thinking about a new Royalex canoe?

Good points…
I just bought a new OT Penobscot 16 and a new Wenonah Vagabond in the last year and a half, duplicating the Royalex boats I already had (and I bought them before knowing about the demise of Royalex, so I’m feeling a little like a fortune teller right now). For my purposes–float-fishing Ozark streams for the most part–nothing else does as well as Royalex. The various glass/kevlar lay-ups are all too noisy for fishing when you’re often scraping over gravel and rocks, the poly boats are too much heavier. I’m really glad I now probably have enough Royalex boats to last a long time.

Thinking about
buying an new Royalex boat while I still can got me to thinking about the last one I bought. That was before I knew that they came out of the factory in a soft “green” state and, as such, were vulnerable to dings and gouges. Were I to buy another, I’d want to leave it curing for a year or two before using it. And, that might mean that my heirs would be the first to paddle it.



Peter

Too bad
#1 roylex canoes are way cheaper than composits helping people to get into the sport who don’t want to spend $2,000+. I think this will unfortunatly push more to cheap kayaks.

#2 I don’t know about all the materials,but royalex is real slippery for going over logs and rocks besides being tough.



For various reasons,even though I own higher teck solos,my 300$ Mohawk solo 13 gets the most use of all my canoes.

Turtle

“So, what’s the buzz, tell me what’s…
…happening?” (These are sad times we, or at least I, live in, when one resorts to quoting Andrew Lloyd Webber disciple doo-wop! Or, imparting the question with a Rockyesque dollop of Brotherly Shove brogue, is it Andrew Dice Clay?)



I visit the various manufacturer’s websites on occasion, but seldom their Facebook sites. Is there spin thereabouts? Tis gettin’ to be the season, of various outdoor shows, that is, so there must be buzz.



It struck me funny, in considering alternate layups not of the fabric composites order, that I did not see the SP-3 layout listed on the Nova Craft website, although it’s the layup of the Prospector currently offered as a P-Net Sweepstakes prize. Old stock? Is SP-3 (perhaps in a new, lighter, SP-2.5) about to make a comeback within the Nova stables? Perhaps Polyethylene Pam (“Forget that pricey 303! Just a light, weekly application of PAM cooking spray to your Old Town Beluga 17 and you’ll be slip-sliding away over those waves and rocks! Later, ashore after a successful morning of fishing, just roll your Beluga over in the hot sun and flop the day’s catch onto her hull! Voila! Alfresco Fish Fry Extraordinaire!”) will be the reigning Tupperware Titan for the next decade.



Don’t know. I’m still pushin’ for Precision Paddler Peanut Plastics to be my next Poly Royal Rex! Now, if I can only find the right sultan, or that Buffet of billions fella to front me some seed money.

Don’t really no wassup, Tom
I know that both Esquif Canoe and Johnson Outdoors (Old Town) claim to have purchased or ordered enough Royalex sheet for their anticipated 2014 production runs.



For the heck of it, I called customer support at Wenonah a couple of days ago and asked if they think they will be producing all of the Royalex models listed in their catalog in 2014. I was told “we think so at this time”.



There is a thread which originated Nov 13 on the Swift Canoe Facebook page in which I asked if there had been any discussion among canoe manufacturers to try to cooperatively take over the production of Royalex and I received this response:



“There have been some rumblings that another canoe manufacturer may purchase the equipment necessary to make Royalex. The biggest issues with that are 1) cost (obviously), but 2) Royalex machinery is enormous and requires a huge space to operate. In order to buy the equipment you’d need a large facility to accommodate it. We’re all hoping something shapes up for 2015.”



Don’t know what the situation is with Mad River Canoe. My prior attempts to obtain intelligible info from Confluence Watersports have generally led to frustration.



It looks as if at least some of the major manufacturers will have new Royalex canoes to sell next year, although perhaps not all models and perhaps not throughout the whole year. Costs will be higher because PolyOne jacked up the price of sheet 20% immediately after buying out Spartech. Mohawk Canoe has been taking preorders and down payments to purchase sheet for next year and only planned to manufacture a few select models. If you haven’t already placed an order with Mohawk, it could be too late.

Thanks Pete.
I suspect, having seen what’s been up with the manufacturing and industrial real estate market the last five years, that there’s a huge supply of those big facilities/structures available for accommodating large manufacturing equipment. At least here on the east coast around large transportation hub cities like Baltimore and Philadelphia, although I’d also suspect it’s the same case (sadly for the fate of this nation’s economy and future wellbeing) nationwide. When these facilities do get sold/re-utilized it is usually because they’re near the water, and then they get either razed completely or, old brick having its “street appeal,” they’re “re-purposed” as pricy lofts, or corporate headquarters and distribution centers for tony sellers of Chinese-made athletic wear, or investment brokerage firms trying to “purify” their air with sort of an “Off Wall Street - But Not Too Far!” location.



Look at me, as usual. I’m just as guilty in my digressions.



Anyway, I’m sure space ain’t the problem. BUT, like you say, the cost of moving any huge machinery, let alone 20-to-30-year old, creaky-rollers wobbling stuff that probably sucks in more in nickels for maintenance than the plastic sheet it kicks out will yield, means $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!



Only thing gonna save this Royalty is an abomination of some Dr. Frankenmerger’s handiwork, and I’m not sure if Mad QuifNovaHawk walking this earth would be a bad thing or good,??? Although it would likely start its township terrorizations in Shenzhen, or thereabouts.

This just in
From Richard Guin of Mohawk Canoe posted on Facebook about an hour ago:



“It has been a very depressing week at the canoe shop. We spent un-Godly amount of time trying to make sure we ordered the right amount of royalx for the right boat . 1st Poly one told us we had until march to order material, then 2 weeks ago we were told we needed to get our order in this week. So we finally decided on what sheets to get, made the PO and sent it to them (this is were it gets sad) they returned our PO and said that they are no longer taking orders. So we are shit out of luck. This means if it is not a boat we have in stock it will never be again. This is the end of some really good models of boats.”

That is really sad for Mohawk and all
all those who wanted one of those boats.



I especially feel for the owners of Mohawk, since they’ve only owned the company for a few years.

No sweat!

– Last Updated: Dec-17-13 4:40 PM EST –


There will always be some Pelicans & Colemans available for beginners who want to get started.

You can always find a retired "beater" from outfitters. Some of those old, aluminum 17 footers can be made quite serviceable. Jumping up & down in the bilge will help bend some of the worse spots back into something resembling a canoe. Busted keel; no problem. Slap on a few dabs of JB Weld, or duct tape, and you're good to go.
Leaks? Carry a bailer & alternate paddling with bailing.
It's all about getting out on the water. It doesn't matter what the boat looks like, whether or not it will go straight, or has a propensity for sinking.

I jest!
:^)
BOB

Cayucos
Dugouts to you. Head down to the Saint Francis mountains. Mine you some of the right igneous rocks. Shape you a gouge, kill you a deer for tendon cordage, haft to an hickory handle and get to work on a bald cypress log. The oil patch has made this a sport vs. a way of life. Just a sign of things to come ahead from the way back years – digital age meet stone age.

Ah Ha!

– Last Updated: Dec-14-13 1:33 PM EST –

The technological wheel keeps on turning cranking out new ways to make old products. There may not be a market for Royalex anymore, but where one market disappears another appears... What we need is a 3D copier that can chip flint. Bound to make someone a fortune.
Edit: Come to think of it, if they get on it right now, someone here could be rich by next Christmas from selling the ceramic-bladed crooked knives with genuine faux caribou antler handles destined to be under all our Christmas trees in 2014.

BTW, I was chatting with a guy the other day who claimed that in addition to the worn out condition of the machinery at the Royalex manufacturing facility (Avon L., Ohio, right?) that there were toxic waste byproducts associated with Royalex manufacture.

I hadn't heard anything about this before. It might be just the kind of BS that we hear from time to time and doesn't amount to anything; and even if true there's a lot of ABS and poly products now being made that I would think would carry the same (or very similar) waste products that are being handled safely.

Has anyone else here heard similar (credible) concerns with regard to Royalex?

mohawk
called them yesterday to see if they had any odyssey 14s left in stock… wanted one to put back … they are gone. not making anymore is what i was told… oh well at least I have one in decent shape…

Not Avon, Ohio

– Last Updated: Dec-17-13 7:52 AM EST –

Warsaw, Indiana.

I believe that the EPA/OHSA mandated changes in how Royalex sheet was produced back in the early 1990s sometime. The general consensus is that Royalex sheet produced after that was not as durable.

Waste
Spartech and Polyone had small waste generator permits at the Warsaw, IN facility. They were more of an assembly operation. I imagine the big waste generation occurred earlier in the manufacturing process at the big plants where the oil was initially processed. Trace it back to the Canada Tar Sands or the BP Gulf oil spill and it ain’t a happy footprint all around. Someday this black river will flow no more. We were shortsighted to have grown a civilization on it. But just insane to grow further on it. But, the growth god rules and we all follow the religion.

Another stake in the heart of open . . .

– Last Updated: Dec-17-13 12:50 PM EST –

. . . canoeing and single blading.

The death of Royalex won't affect kayaks or SOTs. In fact, it will probably further enhance the metastasis of those markets.

But it takes away from the already moribund open canoe market one of the very best construction materials, especially among the new entrant, whitewater and wilderness river tripping segments.

Royalex has been the material of choice for larger whitewater canoes and northern wilderness river tripping canoes, especially when driven tandem, for 40 years.

I personally can't stand poly-plastic hulls of any kind. U-G-L-Y. Especially that soft Tupperware stuff that scratches into a Frankenstein-scarred surface.

Too bad for future high latitude and altitude river travelers who need to slide and flex and bash over igneous and metamorphic hard places.



"It ain’t always…

– Last Updated: Dec-17-13 5:17 PM EST –

...sedentary in the sedimentary, too!"
Said simple Sam Simon sunk in S-Glass canoe.
"All ledged limestone lurks lashing, catches Kevlar at keel!"
"As is all igneous ignoble, or nasty gneiss gnawed near kneel!"
Unrighteous Raymond roared out, "Our rapid rides are all wrecks!"
"Repairing rips raised riparian requests, 'Return Royalex!'!!!!!"

That’s what I would think
also. I don’t have any experience working in plastic manufacturing, but I, too, would think that where the component plastics themselves were made would be where the generation of any (or most) waste or toxic byproducts would occur. I’d also expect that with as much of these component plastics being made, and for as many purposes as they are being applied to, that there’d be safeguards at the place of manufacture in place to handle them, for economic as well as environmental reasons.

It doesn’t surprise me that toxic wastes from plastic manufacture exist. I’d expect that manufacturing safeguards were at first lax and have been becoming more stringent ever since.

That’s why I found this “rumor” odd and was surprised by it, since I’d never heard it previously in spite of Royalex being around for quite a while. Just wondered if others had heard it also.



(I also agree we use too much oil, though I also think in some ways there are many worse uses for it. Plastics do provide a very good material that could last almost forever in the proper applications saving metals or forest products which also have their environmental costs… BUT, here we are for the first time in human history with plastics - materials that don’t rust or rot, can last hundreds of years, easily formed, that can be designed to whatever density is required, that don’t waterlog - and what do we do with it? Make sporks and all manner of disposable crap that can’t be disposed of. WTF??? Sure glad we’re such a smart species.)



I think it was an old Blue Hole catalog (not a very reliable source of technical information, I’ll grant you - just something I read and happened to remember)had me thinking that Royalex was basically made by taking two sheets of ABS with a single-side poly coating and cementing them together (ABS side to ABS side) with a material that expanded into a foam when it was heated and which hardened into a closed cell foam that held its shape upon cooling on a mold.



But far from where the chemical manufacturing occurred. This guy who mentioned this to me seemed to be saying that there was some sort of toxicity unique to Royalex, independent of its component plastics.



I will say that the last canoe I bought, I bought precisely because it was Royalex (the old Royalex at that). And I wouldn’t want to have it in any other material. Personally, I’ll happily take almost any Royalex canoe into places I’d be darned reluctant to take any composite, w/c, or aluminum canoe for fear of trashing them. I’m going to miss Royalex.



There will soon, I’m sure, be those who consider Royalex canoes to be dinosaurs - but, darnit, weren’t those dinosaurs magnificent creatures?! Sturdy, nimble, colorful… Perfectly adapted for their habitat. Extinction is a sad thing.

Life is short
Hold your canoe close

Yep
The dinosaurs lasted until a mega asteroid got cozy with earth’s orbit. Now, man, living on fossil energy, is the asteroid, the mother of the earth’s new mega extinction event. Just thought I’d give this royalexophility a little deep time context. Party on.

Obviously the solution is more chines!