Carbon fiber river canoe paddle?

No longer made or available.

My feeling is pretty much the same
but I generally try to avoid telling people they really don’t want what they want.



But a very lightweight carbon paddle would probably not be my first choice either. A paddle like the ZRE Power Surge really shines for paddlers using a high cadence or going long distances. But I will admit that a featherweight paddle can become quite addictive no matter what type of paddling you do.



Having said that, I will point out that all ZRE paddles are made in three parts (grip, shaft, and blade) so it is possible to replace a damaged or badly worn blade (although it is not cheap). I don’t know how the durability of ZRE’s bent shaft Power Surge and FW-Z paddles compares to that of my ZRE Power Curve paddle, but I so use the Power Curve in whitewater and it has held up to some pretty good knocks so far.



As g2d points out, if you anticipate spending most of your time kneeling, you will be better served bio-mechanically with either a straight shaft paddle, or one with considerably less angulation at the elbow than the typical 12 degree bents that marathoners and racers use. Those guys are always seated. When paddling from a kneeling position you can plant your stroke farther forward, and it is desirable to do so.

I had similar doubts
However, I thought light weight is nice no matter what. I like to go down the river for 2-3 days and do have to paddle through some longer stretches of pools. But, I’ll admit that I may encounter submerged rocks all of a sudden.



While the ZRE paddles are racing paddles, people seem to enjoy their lightness even in non-racing contexts.

Carbon paddles can be ok going down
bony rivers. I use carbon ZRE paddles pretty much 100% of the time on the central IL bony rivers & streams. The edge will get nicked & scratched when contacting rocks, but won’t likely break unless it gets wedged or is used like a crow bar. I haven’t severely damaged a ZRE going downstream, but I don’t do whitewater.



Going upstream in a bony river is another matter. In just one upstream venture that lasted about an hour last summer, I really abused the edge of my ZRE Medium straight shaft paddle. Very disappointing.

During most of its life, my Mitchell has
been used on rivers that are often shallow and rocky. Same for my similar Clinch River. Both have carbon shafts. The Mitchell’s blade is glass faced, the Clinch River has carbon facing. The Mitchell is well over 15 years old and is not in need of any maintenance, though one can see that it has been used. The Clinch River has the carbon fibers worn off the bottom part of one side of the blade.



I know I’m easier on paddles than most, but that’s not because I paddle deep, muddy rivers. Sophisticated ww paddles can last a long, long time, in the environment for which they were designed.

That’s Sad?
You mean no one makes composite canoe paddles with identical and symetrical front and back power faces anymore? That’s too bad, for the convenience of being able to use either the front or back of the blade equally sure saves a lot of time and effort doing various maneuvers where the canoe responds almost instantly. Certainly, maybe, those freestyle paddlers might use them?

+1
…Hope it’s just a temporary lull, butttt…things are really getting consolidated in the paddling world.

Meaning nobody makes Pat Moore Ques.

Sure…I have one
and I use it primarily for FreeStyle. I also am always on the lookout for another for a price that my meager budget allows. Pat Moore had a tough time making much of a profit for those fantastic one-piece paddles. Most paddlers are not willing to spend $400 plus for a paddle, so the limited paddle market tends to go where the demand and the dollar intersect.

There are a couple
which I mentioned earlier in this thread, to wit:



http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/wenonah-canoe/black-light-straight-24675



and the Grey Owl Raven listed on this page:



http://www.oakorchardcanoe.com/canoepaddles.php

Those are the same paddle.

Disagree about low degree bent; cue
My disagreement in this post has nothing to do with measurements or bio-mechanics, which I will accept if data are available, but simply with my own personal preferences paddling on my knees with many, many bent shaft paddles since 1982.



I have bents of various degrees: 2.5, 5, 10, 12, and 15 – with a variety of blade shapes and curves. I also have a Mitchell double bend, 8 deg. on top and 15 deg. on bottom. I don’t know if that means this is equivalent to a 7 degree single bend. I doubt it, as the mechanical differences are more than just the bend angles.



In a very real sense, the angle of bend does not matter much to ME for MY type of paddling, which is medium speed cruising on my knees about 90% of the time. All the bents work for forward strokes and the usual (fairly trivial) turning strokes on flat water. For maneuvering in rapids, I much prefer a straight shaft, though I have done long class 3-4 runs – e.g., the Hudson from Newcomb to North Creek – with a 15 degree wooden bent shaft. All the paddles are “doable”, and I find that I can quickly adjust my personal bio-mechanics.



My long-evolved and current preference for FORWARD stroking, on both knees and while seated – FOR ME – are my higher degree bends, the 10-15 degree ones. The 12 degree ZRE now seems just right for any paddling posture.



Much to my wooden traditionalist horror, I found that the ZRE’s light weight trumped all other considerations once I started using them. I also like the efficiency and power of the ZRE blade shape. It became intolerable to pick up one of my wooden straights after paddling mostly with the 12 degree ZRE Power Surge 8.75" bent, so I bought a companion ZRE 8.75" straight. However, I wanted a symmetrical blade for palm rolling the straight, so I got a Z-WW blade for that.



BTW, Pat Moore propels a canoe with a cue not a que.



Patrick Onno once volunteered here to clone in carbon any wooden paddle sent to him. I don’t know if that offer is still open.






Grey Owl Raven
The webpage the second link directs to has (in addition to carbon Wenonah paddles) a Grey Owl Raven paddle.



Scroll down farther.

They used to have a carbon straight
shaft identical to Wenonah’s.



Now, it appears, they just have the bent shaft.


It’s mostly personal preference

– Last Updated: Feb-07-14 5:57 PM EST –

For forward stroke efficiency much of the advantage of a bent over a straight shaft paddle is that the stroke can be taken closer back toward the hip without "lifting water" at the end of the stroke.

The further forward of the paddler's hips the stroke can be taken and completed the less paddle elbow angle is required to keep the blade face within 10 or so degrees of vertical. Kneeling paddlers are typically able to utilize more torso rotation to plant the paddle further forward of the hip, so they can get by with a straight shaft or a bent with less angle.

The majority of marathon paddlers and racers utilize torso rotation more effectively, keep their torsos upright and weight forward and their strokes shorter and like bents with around 12 degrees of angulation. Recreational paddlers are often a bit more relaxed (read slouched), planting the paddle not as far forward, and bringing the stroke farther back and some of them prefer bents with something like a 14 degree angle.

There are a couple of other advantages to bent shaft paddles compared to straights. The bent shaft allows the shoulders to stay a little lower at the plant and the grip hand arm can be a little straighter so that the top arm can be in an ergonomically better position to pull. The more angulation at the elbow of the paddle shaft the easier it is for the blade to clear the gunwales when swinging it across the boat when paddling sit and switch, which is basically what marathon paddlers, flat water, and down river racers all do.

Many (not all) individuals find that doing J strokes with a bent shaft of 12 degrees or greater puts more stress on the wrists. Many also find bent shaft paddles more difficult to use with in-water recoveries. Nearly everyone finds some loss of efficiency doing lateral draws and sculls with bent shaft paddles as opposed to straight shafts.

I tried David Yost's custom ZRE Power Surge a few years back, which I believe was a 7 degree (could be wrong). But David likes to kneel. He found that to be the best compromise for himself. I have heard a few individuals recommend using a 12 degree bent for the bow partner and a 7 degree bent for the stern partner in tandem canoes if the stern plans to control using J strokes.

The best thing about more angle for
kneelers is it helps keep them from falling forward on their faces at the catch.



Interpersonal abuse aside, I find that adding just 5 degrees of “bent” is exactly right for slipping the blade in neatly and taking a firm catch, so I can feather the blade out to the side as it passes my hip, and skip J stroking.

Pblanc, could you clarify
Nice overall summary, but this one sentence confuses me:



“The bent shaft allows the shoulders to stay a little lower at the plant and the grip hand arm can be a little straighter so that the top arm can be in an ergonomically better position to pull.”



Since I can happily paddle from my knees with a straight or a 15 degree bent, I have no disagreement with anyone who prefers an angle somewhere in between.



The J is less effective with a bent than a straight shaft, unless the bent has a curved blade as many of mine do. The answer is not to use the J. Who likes it anyway, regardless of paddle? Use some combination of C, Canadian and pitch strokes with an emphasis on the component of the stroke that is forward of the hull’s longitudinal center of buoyancy. (This assumes a centralized solo seat.)



Sideways maneuvers and Duffek pivots are more effective with a long straight paddle, especially when crucial in whitewater, but inverting a short bent shaft can give nice results in flat water for side slips, draws and bow jams.

I’m not sure I can explain well
I find that with a straight shaft paddle I need to lift the blade higher at the end of the recovery and start of the plant than with a straight shaft paddle. Of course, a big part of this is because my bent shaft paddles are typically 4" shorter on average than my straights.



But I think the same is true even for paddles with the same overall length. I seem to recall seeing a website with some excellent graphics demonstrating the biomechanical differences between straight and bent shaft paddles somewhere but I don’t recall where.



As for the top arm being less flexed with a bent shaft, imagine 2 paddles, one straight and one bent shaft with the blades entering at the same angle to the water at the plant, say 10 degrees off plumb. Because of the angulation on the shaft the grip on the bent shaft will be further forward relative to the blade than it would be if the shaft were straight.

I think I understand
When you say the top arm is in a “better position to pull”, you don’t mean you are pulling the paddle with your grip arm. You mean you’re grip arm is in a better (extended) position when you pull on the paddle with your shaft arm (plus torso).



Actually, I push downward on my bent shaft with my grip arm as I pull with my shaft arm. I can do that because the paddle is so short, which in your description allows the shoulder to be lower.



I also accompany this top arm down-push with more of a stomach crunch than a torso twist. I see pictures of top racers doing the same thing. Torso rotation, in my opinion, is a torsionally tortured concept – but I’m getting too far afield from the carbonization of the canoe world.

There’s a push-down component
with slalom racers also. And there are things going on with the shoulder girdle moving over the top of the torso.



I’ve found that torso twist is not extensive when the stroke is ended around the hip. There definitely is a twist, and a downward flexion, and something going on with the shoulder girdle. I think that exaggeration of any of those components is inefficient, just as exaggeration of arm push/pull is inefficient.



When you watch Bob Foote demonstrating torso rotation, you have to remember that there’s no way he can rotate like that with his short stroke. Not enough time or space.