STABLE kayak suggestions for my wife

Paddling experience
The answer for both of us is little or not. I agree somewhat…I think I’m convincing her that she doesn’t need to be perfectly rock solid because that’s unlikely.



The first boat she tried was a really old Northwest Cadence. Then she tried a Seaward Chinook Tx (borrowed from one of teaching assistants at class).



I think the bigger problem with her was that both were kind of high off the water and hard for her to do the reentry.



The Chinook Tx was the one I tried (only briefly) but really felt comfortable in.

At the risk of bleeding into
the realm of marriage counseling - it might be best to step out of the decision making and let her take charge. She has essentially the same experience as you - meaning none - so she can seek advice from people she trusts and then make her own decision. That way in the end it will be a decision that she made and she will be motivated to make the decision work. Just a thought.

Letting her make decision
Thanks for the advice. I understand where you are coming from.



I’m certainly not trying to make the decision for her. I’m the “researcher” type, she’s not. She’s a bit overwhelmed and appreciative of me doing some leg work to help narrow down her choices. She has few resources to ask, and she’s pretty shy and not the type to seek out advice.



I’m trying to help narrow the selection for her with her definitely making the actual decision. I’m not trying to step on her toes in any way.

Cockpit size
On your list there are at least two brands that won’t fit your wife because the cockpits are small: Delta and QCC. She should be looking for a cockpit that’s about 18" x 35".



I think you should rethink the length. Some here will disagree (vehemently), but I think 17’ is an awful lot to handle for a beginner. Match the length to your intended use. There are kayaks in the 12- to 15-foot range that are seaworthy.



I recommend that your wife try the Eddyline Denali, a 15-footer that’s new this year. I believe the cockpit will fit your wife. I have not paddled it and there are no consumer reviews of it yet. Here’s a review by Sea Kayaker magazine: http://www.eddyline.com/wp-content/uploads/Sea-Kayaker-Review-Denali-2014.pdf



And a video:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uT2ZghjnLE



For stability, Deltas are quite a bit more stable than Eddylines, but Eddyline has the cockpit that fits your wife. The Denali has more volume in the bow and stern than other Eddylines, so it may be more stable (as the Sea Kayaker review indicates). The Eddyline Journey will probably not fit your wife due to the low cockpit, which is quite confining in the thigh area, and it may not have the stability you’re looking for.


Look at used kayaks and do not limit
yourself. I frequently use a 13.5 ft Northwest Kayaks Sportee. Paddled 25 miles around Resurrection Bay yesterday and did a trip down and up a class 2 section of The Kenai River the day before. If you can find an Eddyline Falcon, the 16ft fiberglass model, A Mariner Coaster or Express. Demo it.

The QCC 400X cockpit is deep, which
makes the 16"x30" inner cockpit dimensions less of an issue than on the shallower QCC models (600 & 700).



I’m 5’6" and 160 and my 400X feels too loose in the cockpit and too stable to me.



The challenge for the OP’s wife will likely be entry and exit, not fit after sitting in seat.



Our 400X is the only sit in kayak that my wife will get into because she is stiff and lower volume kayaks, even with longer dimensions, such as the kevlar Perception Eclipse, were less easy for her to get in and out of.


More on deck height/ Solstice

– Last Updated: May-09-14 9:11 AM EST –

Take the CD Solstice boats off your list if you need an easier deck height for re-entry. They will be too tall. But the Visions might solve that from the description on the web site.

I wouldn't get hung up on length. My first sea kayak was close to 17 ft, when I didn't have a clue, and I had that boat offshore in some stuff that was frankly nastier than I should have been it. I always managed to get her to go where I wanted, even the one day where it was a bit of an argument. Higher winds and unusually big rollers - so it just took a little longer. My shorter go-to sea kayak maneuvers more easily, but you said you were more about a predictable experience right now.

I personally never matched the Eddyline boats because their cockpit fit for my size was like a pair of Addidas sneakers on my feet. The shape of things in the cockpit just did not work for how I was configured. But - I demo'd a number of them including some of their more challenging ones, and never found them to be particularly unstable in the water. They have a V-hull that tips around in a driveway. But when you get that shape into the water they are just fine. I don't love the Journey because I find it to be less responsive than I like, but an outfitter around here sold a number of them after they came out to people who wanted a little extra head room on the stability part. No returns.

Actually, if not-fast works for you take a hard look at the (oops on earlier mistake) WS Alchemy for your wife, will need to check both sizes. Newbies have been picking them up from an outfitter around here since they came out, and none of those paddlers has found the water by accident yet.

Tiderace
Xplore, Xtra and Vortex - bombproof and stable (Vortex is a plastic version of Xtra pretty much, easier on the pocket)

vintage used
Occassionally a vintage Dagger Magellan turns up for sale in good shape, made in the 80’s, 17’ touring kayak. I had one for years as my loaner for friends and dates, wish i had held on to it. it was very stable but easy to paddle to decent speed and tracked well, with or without the rudder. i had countless folks of all sizes, mostly novices in it and all felt very secure in it. Paddled it a few times myself and enjoyed the feel and performance. The stock seat is a little funky but the back can be replaced with a backband. It is a little heavy (62 #) but a durable and reliable craft. I bought it for $400 and sold it 8 years later for $450 (actually had buyers bidding me for it when i posted it on Craigslist).



Another very stable and superlight boat is the Pakboat folding kayak model xt-15. Pakboat is replacing it with their new Quest models so you might find a discount on it and the slightly larger XT-16. The XT-15 is only 39 lbs. The inflatable sponson design makes it very stable but the aluminum frame, PVC/poly skin and shape make it perform very much like similar sized hardshells and it is actually more stable in rough water than a rigid boat.

From your list
The only mfg. I carry and have direct experience (recently. I’ll let others weight in on CD, Eddyline, etc. as my seat time is dusty with those brands) is P&H, Valley & North Shore.



In their current offerings;

P&H Cetus, or Ceti - never sure of the plural

P&H Scorpio - the shorty poly Ceti

P&H Delphin/Aries - While a touring surf boat the civil primary stability is very reassuring, even if you’re not in breaking surf.

Valley Etain 177 for you

North Shore Atlantic for your wife

North Shore Ocean 17 for your wife and the Ocean 176 for you

North Shore Atlantic & LV Poly



Paddle this list then have lunch.



Others will have more suggestions I’m sure.



See you on the water,

Marshall

The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

www.the-river-connection.com

hudsonriverpaddler.org

Here’s one for ya.
The Next Adventure Paddle store in Portland Oregon has two brand new Maelstrom Vaags on clearance for $2600. It might be well worth a drive down to Portland to have a look and see if the fit is right. Check out their paddles and other gear while you’re there. I’ve made some purchases there that are unbelievable.

OP’s wife
5’6" 210 lbs



There couldn’t be a worse cockpit for her than 16 x 30. There is no way she can get in or out of it, so the question of fit once she’s in is moot. Her body shape also hints at a level of fitness that’s not going to allow entry and exit acrobatics.

Longer doesn’t always = easy entry.
The OP’s wife may not fit in the 400X, but also may not fit in a kayak with a 34" long cockpit, unless there is enough depth to go with the length.



I have to hold and balance any boat my wife gets in or out of because of her stiffness. Even her SOT.

Too many assumptions
You are assuming that the configurations given mean that the OPer’s wife is carrying much of her weight in her hips and thighs.



Without seeing her or the OPer verifying this, none of us know if that is true. I know of more than one woman who has a relatively heavy weight for their height but carries is throughout their body, really as much like a guy as anything. And at least a few of them have proportionally skinny thighs.



There is also the issue of thigh length to make it to a good fit under the thigh braces, a further number that can change as the cockpit gets biggier and no one here knows.



I tend to agree with Yanoer about depth - it can matter as much or more than the horizontal measurements of the cockpit. And we do not have enough information here to assess that precisely.



Delta kayaks, while not my cup of tea, also have the characteristic of being fairly lightweight. (Don’t know where the QCC’s land these days) The OPer’s wife may find this to be a desirable feature.

"V hull tips over in the driveway"
That was true of the previous generation of Eddylines, like the Merlin XT, which had a deep V hull. The newer design (e.g. Journey) has a moderate V hull and is more stable.

Doesn’t really matter in this case
A person who is 5’6" and 210 lbs isn’t going to fit into a QCC comfortably no matter where her weight is, and I think this is probably true for Deltas also. Those are just the wrong brands for those body types. Eddyline would fit the person in question better because Eddyline has made an attempt to cater to larger people.

Not the point

– Last Updated: May-11-14 11:25 PM EST –

Your assumption that how a kayak behaves on a hard surface directly indicates you it will behave on the water - not a new idea - completely ignores the resistance that develops as the boat heels. Hitting the pavement is not same dynamic as a boat responding to degrees of heel in waves.

The Journey is not more resistant to capsize than other boats because it has a shallower V. It is a combination of factors.

If stability relied on as limited a test as you suggest, there would have been no reason for Sea Kayaker magazine to have posted all those graphs with each boat review. The could just measure how much a boat fell over from its center and call it more or less stable from how many inches it fell.

No
I know quite large people who fit into one boat rather than another BECAUSE one is deeper. In one case, a well over 6 ft tall guy, the cockpit opening is exactly the same between the boat he can’t get into and the one he paddles. The difference is in the depth.



We have had exactly the same experience in our boats with some women. Thy couldn’t get into a boat with a larger cockpit due to deck height, could get into one with a narrower cockpit and more depth.



Yanoer is right - depth matters and there is no reason to rule out the possibility that any of the manufacturers you mention might not have a boat that would work.



I long ago lost track of the number of people we have put into our boats, to give them a chance to see what a sea kayak feels like. We have often shown up with two cartops full of boats - up to four boats on each - for these ad hoc sessions. So we have a seen a lot of people of various configurations fit - or not fit - into a given cockpit configuration.

That Vaag…
…is an incredible boat - spent a couple of hours in a friend’s, and it felt like I could trust it to go anywhere, do anything. Real solid in the water, turns readily, tracks well, beautifully built and finished. If I was looking, the Vaag would be No. 2 on the list - Eastern Island Makkovik would be No. 1.

have you heard of ocean cockpits?