Solo Reverse Sweep

Often when one does a reverse sweep,
slowing the boat is not only acceptable but desirable.



I’ve watched Gordon Grant race slalom, and he never had occasion to use a reverse sweep.

Comfort
I don’t feel particularly uncomfortable or pretzely after the blade passes my hip. No more than when in the bow quadrant of the forward sweep, which is pretty much the reverse stroke with similar bio mechanics, isn’t it?



Do you switch your grip or paddle face during the stroke?

Had to…
go get a paddle and sit in the living room and try it to figure out how I do that stroke. I do it just as described in the book. I tried doing it keeping thumb up and non-power face leading the whole stroke, but even doing it in the air that way, I could see where it would push the canoe backwards a lot more during the middle part of the stroke. It’s all about the angle. If you keep the non-power face moving forward through the middle of the stroke, the position of your arms makes it move parallel to the canoe for a significant distance, while if you rotate the paddle in the middle of the stroke, you don’t have hardly any distance where the paddle is moving parallel to the canoe and providing power. It’s actually a very smooth stroke for me.



I’ve always been more of an intuitive paddler. I never read books on paddling, and in fact seldom even know the names of the strokes I use. I just move the paddle in such a way to get the bow, the stern, or the middle of the canoe to move the way I want it to in the most efficient way possible, and after 45 years or so of paddling, I’ve figured out what the most efficient ways are for me to do it. Also, most of the time in the solo canoe, I’m fishing, so in actuality a lot of my strokes are done one-handed while holding the fishing rod in the other hand. So instead of the reverse sweep as described, I’m often holding the paddle with one hand, gripping it down fairly near the blade, paddle shaft at a shallow angle with blade face vertical, thumb down, arm locked straight, and the shaft in contact with the back of my arm and the paddle grip in contact with the back of my shoulder. Rotate torso until nearly parallel to the canoe axis, insert paddle blade within inches of the stern, and rotate torso while sweeping paddle with shoulder and torso. Once I feel it starting to push the canoe backward instead of moving the stern, I take the paddle out of the water and repeat if necessary. And of course, the farther back you reach when inserting the paddle to begin the stroke, the more leverage you have.

I agree

– Last Updated: Jun-09-14 9:00 AM EST –

If you want to do an easy, relaxed pivot on flat water or easy current the full reverse sweep (loading the back face for the entire stroke) works fine, and if you don't overpower the stroke and keep the paddle shaft quite horizontal I find that the blade remains in nearly the same position in the water throughout the stroke, the boat pivots smoothly around the fixed blade, and the boat does not move backwards from its original heading much.

For a more aggressive pivot the compound reverse sweep is probably better as the draw to the bow using the power face at the conclusion of the stroke is probably ergonomically more powerful for most folks. I agree with GBG in that the primary advantage is having the blade face properly positioned for linking to an effective subsequent stroke, either a stationary draw/high brace or a forward stroke. An example in which this type of stroke might be very useful is after getting unintentionally spun upstream in the middle of a rapid. The compound reverse sweep powerfully pivots the boat and links a bit more seamlessly to a draw, high brace, or forward stroke as needed.

To answer a question posed by the OP and partially answered by others, this is accomplished by flipping the paddle blade by turning the grip hand from a thumbs up position to a thumbs down position. Just before the blade is flipped, unload the back face by taking the power off the stroke, and rotate the grip hand thumb towards your body (it would be pretty much impossible to rotate it the other way).

The alternative is to do a palm roll and not flip the paddle blade, but this can be awkward to do with a T grip, is not practical for a paddle with a dedicated power face, and relaxing the grip is not a good idea in fast current.

But ultimately I think the best option has been proposed by al_a. The most effective portions of the reverse sweep are the first foot of paddle travel at the stern, and the last foot at the bow. By starting the reverse sweep right at the boat (with the torso fully rotated, the blade well back, and the paddle shaft fairly horizontal) and ending it no more than a foot from the hull, the boat can be powerfully pivoted. This is the active stern pry and with practice three (or more) stern pries can be done in the same time as one reverse sweep. It might not look as relaxed and graceful, but it is more effective.

Don’t get alarmed cuz you don’t use

– Last Updated: Jun-09-14 11:31 AM EST –

the particular stroke...ie ezwater's. One can be pretty inventive with a canoe paddle without needing the maneuver itemized in author_X's Anthology of Paddling.
I think anytime you put the shoulder and/or elbow in a position of having to produce most of the isolated power..you run the risk of asking for trouble...it all depends on the situation(water's resistance and hull efficiency). Often a short pry, with your torso being the main power source, can produce much more result....leading to somekind of stroke with your arms and paddle in front of the paddler. Much easier to tilt the hull for efficient travel if your upperbody is upright, keeping everthing balanced.

That might be of interest if I ever
had occasion to do a reverse sweep.



Perhaps because I’m very tall and get everything done from a considerable vertical angle, I seldom get the paddle horizontal enough to do a sweep of any sort.



But analyze it however you will, I find it hard to believe that switching power face in the middle of a stroke will be a more effective use of paddle-in-the-water.

Actually…
by switching the power face in the middle of the stroke, you’re essentially doing two strokes, a stern pry and a bow draw, without lifting the paddle from the water. You’re mostly skipping the part of any sweep where the paddle is providing power parallel to the canoe. To me, a sweep is meant to make the canoe inscribe an arc. If the canoe is more or less sitting still, the sweep, whether forward or reverse, will make it move forward or backward while turning. If you do the reverse sweep without switching power faces, that’s what the canoe will do. If you switch power faces, it comes a lot closer to pivoting in place rather than moving backward. If the canoe is moving forward, switching power faces makes it turn quickly while maintaining at least some of its forward momentum, while not switching kills the momentum completely…it’s like applying brakes and one wheel locks up. The canoe stops forward motion while turning quickly.



Of course, it all depends upon what you want to accomplish, since both ways do different things, either of which can be useful in a given situation

In freestyle its called a christie
and accomplished best by a palm roll which leaves the powerface always on duty…there is a micro second during a flip when you have nothing except pushing down and pulling up water while the blade rotates.



If you have a grip that allows it the former is easier. The latter if you have a unidirectional or t grip.



I find in compound back strokes (another beast I know) I have become too set in flipping the blade rather than palm rolling.

I was thinking about freestyle as
a venue that would force me into many strokes I never use. And freestyle is in some ways the ultimate of what one can do with a solo canoe.



But when I’m just running rapids and rivers, even when the need for maneuvering comes thick and fast, I find myself getting everything done with slalom technique, and that means 85 % directed forward strokes. My boats are so responsive that there’s seldom a need for sweep strokes, or fancy compound strokes either. Keep the boat moving forward, and adjust its forward motion as needed.



That’s one reason I never understood the discussions of compound backstrokes. Backstrokes? Real whitewater boats don’t do backstrokes, not since reverse gates were abolished from racecourses!

I agree with Bs, et. al.
If one looks back at how traditionally the Solo Bow Draw was taught, the grip hand is almost in the opposite armpit with the thumb down. This locks in the arms and allows almost total use of the more powerful torso. Additionally the shaft hand also changes angles, bringing the large latissimus dorsi muscle into play. It naturally follows that in a Rev Sweep by the time the paddle is almost perpendicular to the centerline the maneuver needs to become a Bow Draw, thus eliminating any Reverse possibility and bringing in the stronger Bow Draw stroke.

If a paddler wants to hold the grip between his butt cheeks and do the Hula to complete a maneuver, its fine by me, whatever floats your boat. I’m trying to respond to the OP’s question. I do not endorse or reject anyone else’s methods.

FS is quiet water
and compound backstrokes good tools for getting into the wrong bog when there is no way to turn around.



Despite the emphasis in the US on canoeing being a river oriented sport, the farther North you move the more important lakes become and the less documented some routes are.



Backing up is often done as a result of a route finding error.



There are some moves in FS that you should absolutely not do in whitewater.

KM: With all due respect,
I know you know what a Christie is. I’ve seen you do a thousand or more and seen you teach that many at my symposium alone. I think however, you may not be remembering the Solo Rev Sweep. It’s an old school thing and not much in favor now-a-days. So, having said that, the FS Christie is not a Solo Rev Sweep. Also a palm roll would defeat the purpose of a true Solo Rev Sweep. In case some folks out there are confused by this, a FS Christie is a pivot turn to the Onside which starts by Initiating a turn while under way with a hard correction after a forward stroke. The paddle is then placed in the Low Brace position near the stern. The grip hand faces upward and the shaft hand is on top of the shaft and the backface of the blade is down. The paddler holds pressure on the blade while the hull pivots around it. When momentum starts to slow the paddler may execute a palm roll to set the grip hand up for a high brace conclusion which draws the Bow to the paddle. In a Solo Rev Sweep the placement is near the stern with the grip thumb up which means the blade edge is facing upward. Sweep the paddle toward the Bow and somewhere near perpendicular to the centerline rotate the grip thumb toward your armpit then all the way downward and touching the front of the shoulder oe right below. The shaft hand also rotates at an angle back toward the forearm. Lock that in and rotate the torso. It’s one of the strongest strokes in canoeing. In terms of strength, it is akin to a Cross Bow Draw, albeit not as forceful. The only comparison is that they are both pivots to the Onside. The Solo Rev Sweep can be done from a standing position, however.

I have seen this taught
the way GG describes. The idea being that you have more power with the thumb down going into the bow draw and it does involve releasing pressure on the grip using a palm roll. Occasionally I execute a reverse sweep this way, but not usually. whether the back face or power face is used, there is a tendency to create backward momentum, which is why it generally is used to execute a spin from a dead stop position. Using the reverse sweep while having any forward momentum would have a detrimental effect. Of course there can always arise a situation in that that might be what you would want to do, however there are likely more efficient ways to accomplish the goal.

Reverse sweep + transition + bow draw

– Last Updated: Jun-10-14 12:28 PM EST –

(1) It seems there is general agreement that this compound stroke is a back face reverse sweep that transitions into a power face bow draw. The transition happens when the paddle is approximately aside (or slightly behind) the paddler.

There are two ways the transition can be done:

(a) Grant says you flip the paddle face in the water while maintaining the top grip. This will cause a some inefficient turbulence, in my opinion.

(b) You can also do the transition via a palm roll, which requires no in-water paddle face flip. To me, this is sleeker and more efficient. However, as pblanc points out, you probably don't want to do a palm roll with a bent or other dedicated face paddle, because you will then have the back side as the power face during the bow draw phase.

That leaves two other possibilities for something that could be called a "reverse sweep".

(2) Do the entire sweep from bow to stern with the back face. You wouldn't have much power in this stroke after the blade passes forward of your body, and it would result in a Kayamedical torso "pretzel".

(3) Do the entire sweep from bow to stern with the power face. This would certainly be an effective way to turn from a standstill, but would stop a lot of forward momentum while under way, which might be desirable in certain whitewater situations but probably not while running turns on a slow twisty creek.

Hi Old Friend.
It is my hope that one day we can be back on the water together and have a real discussion with paddle in hand. Meanwhile I’ll continue with these rather imperfect verbalizations. I agree the Solo Rev Sweep is one of the better ways to pivot a solo hull from a standstill. However, I do not use a palm roll for this maneuver. In this particular maneuver, a palm roll changes little for me. Why do one? Doing a palm roll creates little difference than keeping the thumb up? I roll the grip hand downward and shaft hand back in order to change the dynamic between the paddle and paddler. Turning the thumb downward takes more arm out of the picture and brings the strength of the whole torso into play, which is the whole purpose of this approach. The palm roll has its place, but not for me in this case.



Respectfully,

Pag

such as
If you want to quickly pivot the bow of the canoe toward your on-side without killing forward momentum, use a cross-forward power stroke.



The stern pry is a more powerful correction stroke to turn toward the on-side, and it will slow forward speed some, but if done with good form, keeping the blade well astern the body and close to the hull, it will not kill momentum much.



A third alternative is a draw done in the on-side bow quadrant such as a bow draw or Duffek. This tends to put the brakes on a bit more.



I suppose some would include a cross-bow wedge, or jam as a fourth alternative.

I agree
I usually do the reverse sweep the way you describe. Just seems to work better with less goofing around, although I get the concept of GG method; just not my preferred way of doing it, or teaching it for that matter. In fact I seem to rarely have a need to spin the boat 180 degrees or more from a dead stop, anyway. I still believe it is a useful maneuver to teach, though.

Yes, and all these velocity-keeping …
… methods of turning on-side are potentially useful for my windy situation, which seems to have becalmed.

Kayamedical Torso Pretzel
regarding (2):



I don’t understand how the non-compound solo reverse sweep would be any more pretzely than the non-compound solo forward sweep—am I missing something?

Finally got it…

– Last Updated: Jun-14-14 7:17 AM EST –

It's a compound stroke starting with a reverse sweep and transiting to a bow draw. Yes - do that all the time. On whitewater I would be more likely to use a quick stern pry than a reverse sweep, but it is essentially the same combination of strokes. Not sure why it took me so long to figure that out - it was described in the first couple of responses.

I kept trying to figure out why you would flip your control hand over with the paddle still in the low brace position. It makes perfect sense that you would do that once you move the paddle into high brace position to do the bow draw, but he left that step out of the description.

If I understand what he is describing correctly, I would never call this combination of strokes a "Solo Reverse Sweep".