Ferry runs over kayakers

Didn’t they say…
The pedals were too close together and blamed the drivers?

I am sure
lawyers are looking for them. It will be a good case for them.

Do the ferries follow the same rules?
It has been a while since I have been on a ferry to or from LI, but my recall is they pretty much traveled their established routes and figured that others would expect they would be there.

still

– Last Updated: Aug-31-16 6:51 PM EST –

ships should announce they are leaving on VHF. Instructor would have had time to contact ferry and / or get kayakers out of the way. Prolonged horn blast you cannot miss unless you are deaf. Glare would be no excuse. Unlike a car where it can appear in almost an instance it doesn't happen when leaving a dock. He should not have moved the ferry and someone should be astern I would think if he can't see and knows kayakers use the waters.

Here’s Jack …

– Last Updated: Aug-31-16 9:12 PM EST –

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaatidepredictions/NOAATidesFacade.jsp?Stationid=8530645&bmon=08&bday=30&byear=2016&edate=&timelength=daily

http://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?site=okx&zmx=&zmy=&map_x=91&map_y=218&x=91&y=218#.V8dpzjFTHQM

http://w1.weather.gov/data/obhistory/KEWR.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~x)0

my data are downriver from the accident. not much wind at 39th.

http://w1.weather.gov/data/obhistory/KNYC.html

http://www.google.com/#q=new+york+waterways+ferry+schedule+weekend

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/nyregion/11-kayakers-rescued-from-hudson-river-after-collision-with-ferry.html?_r=0

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\MORE

goo.gl/1dvvaR

On ferries in Maine, Portland
And it is salt water… I have never seen anyone specifically spotting for kayaks even when it is common for them to be around in the summer. No ferry has gotten any cites for this as far as I know. Don’t recall if they blew a horn before leaving.



I did see a Coastie give a very stern time to a kayaker that had gotten themselves in the way of an incoming ferry close to the dock, could have gotten cited but it was hard to tell. The ferry stopped and called the Coasties. And any sanction was correct as far as I and my husband were concerned. The paddler had several problems, no lights when the day was nearly faded, no reflective anything. And from what we could see nonexistent boat control, but there are no fines for bad paddling.

Salty…
…always the voice of reason. Nice to see your posts again. Stay in touch…



Jon http://3meterswell.blogspot.com

so if
you can’t see you hope and pray?

I’ll give captain my NY vanity plate
“SEEKAYAK”

we donate
one ferry sched to Manhattan yaks

You model my point
Only in Inland Rules is a vessel required to sound one long blast when departing. NOT International!! So once again skewed information is shared.



Now, a Captain in International waters “may” choose to sound a blast as a warning but it’s not required. So you may see a ferry in the San Juans pull away with NO blast.



Years back I ran a big tour boat and would often sound three blasts meaning operating astern propulsion.



So DO NOT count on a warning whistle signal in International waters.



Even some waters that are technically Inland of the demarcation lines such as Puget Sound Wa still employ International Rules per the Coast Pilot.

Regards
Dont visit here often but just happened upon this. The Rules can be confusing so I dont fault folk for not undertanding the nuances between the International and Inland Colregs and / or State modifications to such. It’s easy to mix it all up as is evident in these threads.



Id encourage paddlers to take a Rules course at a Maritime school or at the least know what Rules apply to their waters. Thats part of voyage planning. Part of being competent vs naive or arrogant.



It’s all fun. Knowledge supports safety. Just having situational awareness will go a long way.



I wish you all safe fun paddling.

Not accurate
A ferry will contact VTS and notify traffic of their departure but theres NO requirement to make a Securitee announcement on the VHF.

Im starting to think the Internet is part of the problem… Where do folk get this false info??

Interesting take on right of way
Talking about this with another kayak guide, and his response on right of way rules is that they only matter in sailing races. Away from that, whether you have right of way or not, if you can do something to avoid a collision, you need to do it.

In yacht racing…
… you can be penalized for a right of way infraction but still you don’t see a lot of collisions. A protest is filed and a hearing is held to determine the guilty party usually after a few drinks… Very civilized.



Interestingly, unlike a court of law, anyone involved in the incident may be found guilty even the one that filed the protest in the first place.

It is a marked navigation lane

– Last Updated: Sep-01-16 11:56 AM EST –

On the charts. And thus far no one has been run over a ferry in Maine that I know of, though that woman in the dock area was trying awfully hard.

What happened in Manhattan was very bad, no way around that. And one of the not-highlighted parts of this story was that the ferry only had one run a day, which automatically makes things less predictable than if it is something an every two run. This may not have happened as easily with a ferry that had a more frequent, hence needing to be more timely, schedule.

But there is a point where people in kayaks paddling around much larger craft have some responsibility to understand where they are paddling and practice aggressive avoidance. I know for ex that at the end of the afternoon lobster boats coming into Friendship Harbor are often running on auto-pilot. The crew is not looking for small objects in the channel. They are busy cleaning things up and starting to settle pots, so they are not likely to notice anything smaller than another lobster boat or a sailboat. So I don't cross the channel until I know I will cover the distance before anything gets near me. Happily I can find a pretty narrow spot in the channel, but if I get there in rush hour so to speak I have stopped and waited for up to 10 or 15 minutes before going. There is no way I am going to assume they will see or avoid me.

What no one has mentioned here is that it is not unheard of for kayakers to get run down by barges in the NY area. It's not an annual thing, but I have read of it more than once. As far as I know no tug operator has ever been cited for it unless there was a big public issue. That area is big, frequent commercial traffic and frankly it is their water. Kayakers and recreational craft share it, but that is not the same as having equal weight in day to day operations.

It may be that the tug operator was supposed to sound a signal and did not, it may also be that this happened in an area where the sound level of all those boat signals is easily lost. I don't know where you are on Long Island but I have spent a lot of time out that way. There is no harbor anywhere on LI, north, south shore or the crotch, that compares to the congestion of really large boats in the Manhattan area.

yep
…and in Europe, where drivers were used to the pedal arrangement and more used to manuals, no such problem.



But the customer’s always right…

Toronto, too.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/08/07/water-taxi-driver-charged-after-boat-hits-father-and-son-in-kayak.html



In this incident, the taxi pilot clearly erred.

that may be true
but in our locality kayakers sometimes approach lobster boats in an attempt to shop more cheaply.

Lobster boats operate an erratic course with multiple traps on a line and sometimes not. Its just about impossible to deciper a strings colors quickly in a sea of different patterned buoys.

The same in harbors. Usually there is a channel marked and boats off to the side… Some moored and some about to get underway.



We go by USCG rules here. Peter alludes to Rule 8 which is of course any skippers responsibility

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf



Some kayak rental agencies make you sign a paper saying that you acknowledge that they told you kayakers have no right of way over anyone. Perhaps its over simplification but certainly wise for first timers and new paddlers to be aware of.

If

– Last Updated: Sep-01-16 10:03 AM EST –

the guide/organization is experienced in the area ..

the ferry company publishes a schedule ....

ferry company adheres to schedule .....

then kayaks in ferry path esp off the dock at the time of departure ...

have not yielded right of way.

further, the guide/company is now liable for damages to the companies clients ...

no matter what they signed into.

as 'failure to deliver' in any form negates 'signing away rights to complain'

at extreme behavior levels, the client may complain of malicious intent ...I'm sure yawl can come up with examples often read in the tabloids.