I’ll give captain my NY vanity plate
“SEEKAYAK”
we donate
one ferry sched to Manhattan yaks
You model my point
Only in Inland Rules is a vessel required to sound one long blast when departing. NOT International!! So once again skewed information is shared.
Now, a Captain in International waters “may” choose to sound a blast as a warning but it’s not required. So you may see a ferry in the San Juans pull away with NO blast.
Years back I ran a big tour boat and would often sound three blasts meaning operating astern propulsion.
So DO NOT count on a warning whistle signal in International waters.
Even some waters that are technically Inland of the demarcation lines such as Puget Sound Wa still employ International Rules per the Coast Pilot.
Regards
Dont visit here often but just happened upon this. The Rules can be confusing so I dont fault folk for not undertanding the nuances between the International and Inland Colregs and / or State modifications to such. It’s easy to mix it all up as is evident in these threads.
Id encourage paddlers to take a Rules course at a Maritime school or at the least know what Rules apply to their waters. Thats part of voyage planning. Part of being competent vs naive or arrogant.
It’s all fun. Knowledge supports safety. Just having situational awareness will go a long way.
I wish you all safe fun paddling.
Not accurate
A ferry will contact VTS and notify traffic of their departure but theres NO requirement to make a Securitee announcement on the VHF.
Im starting to think the Internet is part of the problem… Where do folk get this false info??
Interesting take on right of way
Talking about this with another kayak guide, and his response on right of way rules is that they only matter in sailing races. Away from that, whether you have right of way or not, if you can do something to avoid a collision, you need to do it.
In yacht racing…
… you can be penalized for a right of way infraction but still you don’t see a lot of collisions. A protest is filed and a hearing is held to determine the guilty party usually after a few drinks… Very civilized.
Interestingly, unlike a court of law, anyone involved in the incident may be found guilty even the one that filed the protest in the first place.
It is a marked navigation lane
– Last Updated: Sep-01-16 11:56 AM EST –
On the charts. And thus far no one has been run over a ferry in Maine that I know of, though that woman in the dock area was trying awfully hard.
What happened in Manhattan was very bad, no way around that. And one of the not-highlighted parts of this story was that the ferry only had one run a day, which automatically makes things less predictable than if it is something an every two run. This may not have happened as easily with a ferry that had a more frequent, hence needing to be more timely, schedule.
But there is a point where people in kayaks paddling around much larger craft have some responsibility to understand where they are paddling and practice aggressive avoidance. I know for ex that at the end of the afternoon lobster boats coming into Friendship Harbor are often running on auto-pilot. The crew is not looking for small objects in the channel. They are busy cleaning things up and starting to settle pots, so they are not likely to notice anything smaller than another lobster boat or a sailboat. So I don't cross the channel until I know I will cover the distance before anything gets near me. Happily I can find a pretty narrow spot in the channel, but if I get there in rush hour so to speak I have stopped and waited for up to 10 or 15 minutes before going. There is no way I am going to assume they will see or avoid me.
What no one has mentioned here is that it is not unheard of for kayakers to get run down by barges in the NY area. It's not an annual thing, but I have read of it more than once. As far as I know no tug operator has ever been cited for it unless there was a big public issue. That area is big, frequent commercial traffic and frankly it is their water. Kayakers and recreational craft share it, but that is not the same as having equal weight in day to day operations.
It may be that the tug operator was supposed to sound a signal and did not, it may also be that this happened in an area where the sound level of all those boat signals is easily lost. I don't know where you are on Long Island but I have spent a lot of time out that way. There is no harbor anywhere on LI, north, south shore or the crotch, that compares to the congestion of really large boats in the Manhattan area.
yep
…and in Europe, where drivers were used to the pedal arrangement and more used to manuals, no such problem.
But the customer’s always right…
Toronto, too.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/08/07/water-taxi-driver-charged-after-boat-hits-father-and-son-in-kayak.html
In this incident, the taxi pilot clearly erred.
that may be true
but in our locality kayakers sometimes approach lobster boats in an attempt to shop more cheaply.
Lobster boats operate an erratic course with multiple traps on a line and sometimes not. Its just about impossible to deciper a strings colors quickly in a sea of different patterned buoys.
The same in harbors. Usually there is a channel marked and boats off to the side… Some moored and some about to get underway.
We go by USCG rules here. Peter alludes to Rule 8 which is of course any skippers responsibility
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf
Some kayak rental agencies make you sign a paper saying that you acknowledge that they told you kayakers have no right of way over anyone. Perhaps its over simplification but certainly wise for first timers and new paddlers to be aware of.
If
– Last Updated: Sep-01-16 10:03 AM EST –
the guide/organization is experienced in the area ..
the ferry company publishes a schedule ....
ferry company adheres to schedule .....
then kayaks in ferry path esp off the dock at the time of departure ...
have not yielded right of way.
further, the guide/company is now liable for damages to the companies clients ...
no matter what they signed into.
as 'failure to deliver' in any form negates 'signing away rights to complain'
at extreme behavior levels, the client may complain of malicious intent ...I'm sure yawl can come up with examples often read in the tabloids.
missplaced blame?
I read the linked report and if that report was correct, the taxi boat operator stated that his vision was impaired by sun glare. If that stands, it is a clear admission of negligence if the operator proceeded to move the vessel without assurance that his way was clear.
Where I paddle ocean going freighters, tugs, barges and all manner of power boats, sailboats and anything that floats are constant and plentiful. Generally the commercial boats (tugs) are operated very professionally, but I’ve seen them do some very odd maneuvers when they were either practicing, or just goofing off while waiting for a ship etc. Some of the newer tugs have 360 degree drives and can go sideways almost as fast as forward, so you have to keep an eye on them.
By far, some privately operated large power yachts are what kayakers have the most to be wary of. And then there are the fishing guide boats. These guide boats are generally capable of speeds of over 50 mph and that seems to be their only speed unless they are trolling. There was a recent case where a guide boat ran right over another fishing boat. So far as I know, the kayakers have been spared.
the fact that you used the
words 'situational awareness" is very cool. It applies to many different environments and paddle craft and is a common part of my paddling dialogue with others.
Being keenly aware of where others are and thinking about what they are likely to do next is a proactive mind frame. Noticing the environment and subsequent changes can apply to both a busy harbor with large boats, or a crowded river with a bunch of gonzo ww boaters, or even a small twisty stream with no other paddlers around.
A lack of “situational awareness” leads to mistakes and misfortune. You can be both “vigilant” and “relaxed” when the situation allows for it. However, full complacency can lead to trouble.
People often like to paddle near where they live. That may or may not be a good idea depending upon the environment and their level of situational awareness.
I can tell you that I personally have no business paddling in a busy NY harbor and would have a lot to learn to do so safely.
Some clarifications…
After reading this thread, I see only one poster that has any real experience in paddling the NYC metro waters.
Just to clarify a few things:
-There are nearly 4,000 ferry boat trips per day that are made by the small, high-speed commuter ferries that are similar to the one in this incident.
- New terminals, new routes, new ferry boats and changes in time schedules make it practically impossible for anyone to know ahead of time what ferry boat is leaving when and from where.
- Much, but not all the time, the captains do sound three horn blasts upon backing out.
- They almost always have prop wash as they “press” against the terminal to maintain a position in the significant. currents to allow passengers on and off.
- They ALWAYS announce their departure on VHF channel 13. As a paddler, if you are monitoring channel 13, it is often difficult to hear and determine which ferry boat is making the announcement. It is often announced only once. They will always state the name of the ferry and where they are departing from. Most of the time the ferry boat names can not be read easily.
- The ferry boats (IMHO) have probably the greatest speed and wake potential of any of the commercial traffic in the harbor. There are fast tour boats, but they operate much less frequently.
The sun glare is something ALL paddlers should be aware of. Even thou you may be paddling (navigationally speaking) in the correct location, you may not be in the best place to enhance your visibility to other powerboat or commercial traffic.
Visibility is your biggest asset. This is not the place for dark colored: clothing, PFDs, paddles or boats. Bright colors and reflectors are you best defense.
Commercial traffic (tugs, ships, ferry boats, tour boats), can often be heard on the VHF alerting each other of human powered and recreational boats.
Despite all this, paddling the NY harbor and the related waters that can be safely paddled and given the amount of commercial traffic and the amount of recreational boaters and human powered boats- I’d say it has a pretty stellar safety record.
The harbor can be paddled safety. It does thou require a higher level of situational awareness than many paddlers may be accustomed to that normally paddle fresh water or more “rural” coastal waters.
Be safe-
4r
Thanks
The sheer density of the boat traffic is different than any place I have tried to paddle. And for me, the overhead of managing all of that safely is similar to why my return to biking when I have time will mostly be on bike paths. I can bike on the road, did for many years. But the local roads are a lot busier and my interest in being that attentive to avoidance is a lot less.
It is great that there are those like you who have the habits to manage it.
page 12
RULE 5
Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and
hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing
circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation
and of the risk of collision.
captain is toast
great sense of humor
situational awareness
The harbor can be paddled safety
It’s A Coast Guard Rule - Check Out
This Link where I saw it: http://www.libertyoutrigger.org/racers/rules-and-regulations
I couldn’t believe it! Paddlers beware, for now you know.
Years ago, during the first Liberty race, the Coast Guard actually pursued and stopped the lead canoe in the middle of the race for no apparent reason or just out of curiosity. I think they didn’t know what a six-man racing outrigger canoe was or that there was a race until they saw the other canoes behind it? The stopped canoe went on to win the race despite being pulled over by the Coast Guard.
USCG position on kayaks in NY Harbor:
“There are no kayaks, only suspicious kayaks,”
http://www.facebook.com/notes/erik-baard/hudson-river-ferrykayak-strike/10154469452108832?hc_location=ufi
Quoted from the above very interesting read.
I’ve learned a lot from the comments of substance in this thread. Thank you.