Hard?
I have no doubt you enjoy your paddling Jim. So does everyone else. I really don’t see what that obvious statement has to do with anything.
No one is trying to make any of this seem harder than it it. We are simply recognizing it can be MUCH harder for some than others. Reasons can be mental, physical, and often both. We are not all the same. We are certainly not all like you.
Just because you don’t feel you need to practice is a TERRIBLE reason to suggest someone else not try to learn/improve their own abilities.
YOU are right that YOU don’t ever need to learn a roll, and probably don’t need much rescue practice to do what you do in reasonable safety. But that ONLY applies to you. This is the problem I have with all your posts.
Fact is you’re not bored by practice, you’re too scared of the water yourself to be inverted enough to practice wet exits and recoveries regularly, let alone work on a roll. Don’t take that totally the wrong way (not some “elitist” dig). You certainly have your reasons - and are of course free to do as you please with your leisure time.
You made yourself do some practice ONE day (after some serious prodding from a concerned paddler who shall remain nameless) which was great. Very good first step. Only you lose out if it’s your last.
Given your own fears I would think you, more than most, would understand the plight of the original poster and congratulate the interest in, and effort required, getting past those fears.
If you can’t get past your own fears, please don’t try to hold others back there with you by pushing your self-limited and self-delusional views that anything more is of no use. Some want more than you’re willing to settle for and are quite capable of getting it.
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“There is only one thing worse then a quitter, someone who is afraid to begin”
“Show me a man who has never failed, and I?ll show you a man who has never tried.”-unknown
“If you try to fail and succed, which have you done?” -Big Dave
“The hardest fight comes from the opponent within” -Garry Wasson
“We are bound by our limitations to believe.” -Mark Bishop
“One of the sources of pride in being a human being is the ability to bear present frustrations in the interests of longer purposes.” -Helen Merrell Lynd
“The fearful mind is the distracted mind, and can never operate at its full potential.”-Unknown
“If you have to think about a technique you haven’t done it enough.”-Norman Harris, Sensei
“Practice until you get tired…then practice some more.” -Norman Harris, Sensei
“Nothing is perfect, all can be improved”-unknown
“Shortcuts generally get you no-where faster”- Sensei Hitoshi
“We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training.” - Unkown
“In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert’s mind there are few.” -Suzuki
“No such thing bad student. Only bad teacher.” -Mr. Miyagi
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“Talk is easy - ACTION is difficult. Action is easy - TRUE UNDERSTANDING is difficult!” - Unkown
“Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.”
– Douglas Noel Adams (b. 1952), British author, “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”
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– Dr. Joyce (Diane Bauer) Brothers (b. 1929), American psychologist, author
I had the same fear…
It gets better with water time, good instuctors and warm water for practice. The more calm, warm water practice you can get, with safe, encouraging people nearby to help, the better it will get. I would advise you to keep taking classes until you start feeling more confident. That self-imposed water time helped me.
Pool roll classes helped me, more than wet-exit practice, because you are in a very protected setting and you are getting the feel for how it feels to be upside down in the water, wearing your boat:) I actually just took my first pool sessions this spring and my personal goal was to get comfortable giving myself a moment to “hang” upside down, and to get oriented to “where” I was, and not to panic. I have also practiced holding my breath underwater. Ditto on the advice to use a mask. Last week I went to a nearby lake, and learned how to do a paddle float assisted reentry.
For me it has nothing to do with fear of the water or swimming. I was an avid swimmer, both in the pool and in in the ocean as a kid. It has to do with fear of entrapment/getting stuck in a boat (I can get claustrophic. Not usually a problem, but having an MRI triggered it, and the thought of being upside down in the water, made me afraid it would be triggered)Hypnosis and relaxation techniques can help. I just give myself instructions to breathe and relax before doing anything and it helps. reminding myself that I used to swim in water, similar to the water I now kayak in, actualy helps me.
I finally fell out of a boat,paddling with friends, not in a class, a few weeks ago, during a surf landing. I misjudged the sets coming in, and got knocked over by a wave. I just relaxed and leaned into the wave, and fell out easy as pie! It was a huge relief and I had a blast paddling the rest of the day. I guess I should think about bracing next time:)
Some of us are sometimes
curmudgeonly, but we all want to see you and each other succeed at paddling and having as much fun on the water as you can.
Good paddling (and capsizing) to you!
Thinking more about you
and I realized that you are as near to an emergency take out as you are to the shore. things are different here and so thisgivs NE paddlers more exposure sometimes.
Again this accounts for some of your stance and fits it well. I should have thought of it earlier.
For what it’s worth
I don’t like flipping over either – I’m perfectly fine while under water. As a matter of fact in the various classes I’ve taken, I’m usually the crash test dummy for demonstrating different resucue techniques, the roll excluded.
A mask makes it much more pleasant underwater, but I still have some initial resistance to actually making myself roll over. Mostly because I’m usually practicing trying to roll by myself and it means a couple attempts at rolling, followed by a wet-exit, then a swim to shore, dump the boat and start all over again. I’d much rather just paddle around and enjoy myself.
I think the take a swim first is excellent advice as well as have someone there that can assist you getting upright so you don’t have to wet exit and go through all the subsequent hassle. Both would go a long ways to making you more comfortable.
Also thanks to the advice on trying to roll the SOT. While it will be harder to roll, the time savings of not having to go through the whole routine seems excellent to me. And I’m sure my roll will be the better for it. Right now, I go out and make about five or six attempts and call it a day. The SOT should atleast double that number of tries for me.
Ramble mode off. Best of Luck Robin and thanks for the advice from the rest of you.
Slim
Rolling by yourself
"Mostly because I’m usually practicing trying to roll by myself and it means a couple attempts at rolling, followed by a wet-exit, then a swim to shore, dump the boat and start all over again." There are several solutions to this. The nice, but more difficult, solution is to learn to scull up. It is easier to learn and more reliable than the roll and can serve as a backup to a roll. Easier is to dog paddle the boat to a dock or similar object and hip snap up. If you are using a sea kayak, attach the paddle float and do a reenter and roll. You will still need to pump but that is better than swimming to shore and dumping.
Try…
Having a friend or relative be in the water very nearby.
Also try counting to five while upside down before you start the exit. A little time to relax and get accustomed.
You can do it!
Dog Paddle over distance in boat?
Do people really do this? I’ve done this out of desparation looking for my paddle in surf but it did not get me anywhere. Is there a proper technique?
Easier?
Sculling up is easier to learn than rolling? A non-roller dog-paddling upside down? You can’t be serious.
have a friend
stand in the water with you, you in the boat, leave paddle on beach, put your hand in the loop, hold your breath, GO for it!
If you free your mind, your but will follow!
If you can’t over come this fear don’t, do not! go in to the boat!! YOUR FEAR CAN KILL! Allthow we are talking about falling out of a boat.
are you guys serious ?
She is NOT Afraid BEING underwater but she is afraid to GET Underwater ??
Its like I love TO DRIVE but I an TERRIFIED of turning the ignition key.
U guys think whatever you want.. but this one sure smells like a troll to me.
Now if she was PRESSURED to learn how to roll despite repeated failures, by the surrpunding peers watching her in the pool ... then i understand the anxiety and problem.
A lot of people cant roll a kayak, sea or whitewater and still managed to enjoy the sport fine (Although i think, you must be able to roll to do whitewater).
Fear will cause loss of control and there is nothing worst then being upside down, losing control and freeze frame. Now imagine, her being underwater with a tangle. Do you think she will be calm enough and being in control to take out the knife and cut loose ?
If she has the fear of even doing a wet exit despite her repeately success before ..... she should seriously consider other sports that might be less fatal.
I also found out that scuba divers have less problems being upside down underwater :)
My goodness!
A long reply to a simple matter. Practice if you want to…don’t practice if you don’t want to. I just hate to see so much gravity thrown onto this fun thing we do.
Regards your “fear” comments…that is why I stated the obvious…that I love to paddle.I am an excellent swimmer, I love the water. I fear heavy seas as any smart paddler would. I love calm seas. so what?
Dog paddling
Obviously not over distance. But for 10 feet or so it is quite doable. All you have to do is practice near a dock or similar structure.
I am serious.
Dog paddling is not hard for short distances. Sculling up is easier for some, harder for others, but in general requires less skill. Lean back over the stern and inch out over the water while skulling. It won’t take long to get the hang of hanging out there. Then simply move back and sit up. Another option is Orca breathing (article in Sea Kayaker) which will allow you a large number of roll attempts. Of course the best option is not to practice alone.
Orca breathing
Hey, no Orcas here. Will it work with Manatees? How do you train them?
Sorry…
Get someone to help you flip, slowly
The advice to play around in the water and get comfortable is excellent. Kayaking is a water sport, and the sooner you start to blur the psychological barrier between kayaking and swimming, the better.
Here’s a complementary idea to specifically address your fear of flipping. I haven’t read this entire thread, so maybe this advice has already been offered. But anyway…
Enlist some kind kayaking soul to help you do a progressive, controlled flip. They stand in hip deep water. You hold onto their shoulder and/or they hold onto you as you lower yourself slowly to the side as far as you feel comfortable, and then right yourself. Keep doing it, going a little farther each time, until you get your shoulder in the water, and even beyond. You’ll have to move to slightly deeper water as you proceed.
At some point you’ll get your head under water, and may just be holding onto the friend’s hands. You should be able to pull yourself up when you want, so you can practice just hanging there for a few seconds.
Since you say you are comfortable once you’re upside down, including popping the skirt, that may be all you need. People who aren’t may been to go further with this progressive assistance, such as having the friend hold onto their pfd while they hang upside down. They might also want to start without a spray skirt.
This works. I’ve done it for several people with similar fears who now kayak – and wet exit – with impunity.
Good luck.
–David.
Rolling - why?
I can’t roll but am working on it, but I’m not afraid of flipping, getting wet, or wet exiting.
Here’s my question: If I’m not paddling whitewater, and I only paddle lakes and slow moving rivers in good weather conditions, why do I really need a roll? Granted, it would be helpful, but necessary?
As far as I saw, nobody asked Robin what kind of water and conditions she’d be paddling in. If she doesn’t paddle whitewater, would your answers be the same?
I understand the need to be able to wet exit (I can) and to do self-rescues (still working on it). But rolls?
Donna
it increases your learning curve
by allowing you to push yourself with out the hassle of haveing to re-enter your boat in the event of a capsize. Things like braces and sculling are fun to practice and usually at least once or twice a practice session I will miss one and flip.
Having a reliable roll allows you to feel free when you want to paddle and the weather is a little closer to the edge of your comfort level.
having a roll keeps you from being a pain in the butt to your paddling friends if you capsize.
if you never plan to venture out of the small pond mode of paddling, having a roll is not a big deal. If you start venturing out in to slightly more extreme conditions, its a good idea to have.
Besides, its just fun to do.
Andrew
p.s. my answer to her would be it depends. heck, it depends what kind of boat she has. Some are pretty well near un-rollable.
She wants to
which is a good reason.
Folks wh0 do not want to become sea kayakers, or great lakes kayakers (same thing) or WW kayakers do not need to learn to roll. Those who do will lean their boat with more confidence so they will be doing inside leaned turns and other techniques with a bigger lean and more comittment and thus more efficacy. When you can roll you can practice bracing with more committment.
Like other activities, paddling does not require tons of technique, but when technique can serve pleasure (and in the case of paddling, safety) it's good to have it.
Dancing on the water is a pleasure but strolling is nice too.
Great advice! Thanks. (nt)