Upswept Bows

Needle Nosed Boats
So, if I understand you correctly, would it be true that the boats that quickly taper to a needle-like bow that is up-swept have a lower volume and tend to piece the waves more readily?



Lou

Agree on trade-off too, but…
… that’s where Sing’s point kicks in.



Stuff that had me “skeert” when I first got my Q700 (basically any chop or wakes at all - as I was coming from a 28" beam SOT), I hardly notice now. I could sit and eat lunch in 3-4x what spooked me when I first got it. Of course I have a long way to go to feel confident in “conditions” of any magnitude, but have not found the boat wanting so far. If anything - I’d say it’s got to be a good babysitter/teacher if it can take care of a first time SINKer.



So far short steep beam chop/wind wave is the most noticeable - and now that I have a better feel for the hull I realize I can mostly just ignore it (a revelation after having fought it for months). Bigger wakes/waves are easier and even more fun (not that we get a lot of big waves here). Rear quartering stuff gets more fun every time out. Boat is amazingly well behaved in sloppy stuff - has to be if I’m enjoying it as a SINK paddler of only about a year.



The boat does like to get up and go though, and I used that steady forward stroke as a stability crutch the first few months (sort of like skis always are -with the paddle completing the balance tripod). At first I was very uncomfortable going slow or just coasting/sitting in chop. Had to keep moving at a fair rate to feel stable. At some point I separated the balance from the blade and most of it went to the body/coat connection and I no longer needed to be moving forward to feel stable. Doubt I’ll ever see that on a ski, as it’s not made for sitting - it’s 100% made to be moving, but the Q700 is really a fairly ordinary design for a fast sea kayak (very good - but not realy radical in any way) and does a range of things well. Most of which I still have to learn…

I’d like to try paddling a QCC
one of these times. They do look like nice boats and owners seem to love them. Maybe QCC ought to build a few with rock-bashing layups and really dry hatches and sponsor a few expeditions to see how they stack up on the Brit boats’ turf.

If your’re ever…
in S FL - I’ll hook you up (or Hex, or Jim, Brian, or…).



Phil could do a heavy glass layup - but bet he’d talk you out of it first. Maybe just stratgically reinforce some areas in the standars S-Glass Kevlar layup (their toughest standard layup).



Hatches are another issue. Looks like the new ones aren’t much of an inprovement. I have very little trouble with mine. If I attempt a lot of rolling/rescue practice or have many waves break over the deck I’ll get about a cup or so up front (less since I siliconed the compass adn stopped a samll drain/drip in issue), and have less in the rear now that I changed the skeg setup. No big deal. Something tells me that if I vent I’ll get even less water (suspect some suction as deck cools pulling in water from recess around seal) but somehow venting leaky hatches seems redundant (mental note - do it anyway…).



My ideal upgrades? Lower the reardeck 2-3", put on big oval tupperware hatches and maybe a day hatch(w. third angled bulkhead). Oh yeah, move the front bulkhead back about a foot and beef it up too (so I only need one layer of minicell). Sweet!

Yes, It Is Very Complex…
There are so many factors, and combination of factors, that impact the way a boat handles, including the boaters own size and weight, that about the only way to really judge it is to paddle it for yourself for yourself and see…

sounds

– Last Updated: Jul-20-04 7:23 PM EST –

like my ideal kayak too if you got rid of the ugly arse plumb ends, added a little rocker, and gave it an upswept bow.

you wrote:
....
"My ideal upgrades? Lower the reardeck 2-3", put on big oval tupperware hatches and maybe a day hatch(w. third angled bulkhead). Oh yeah, move the front bulkhead back about a foot and beef it up too (so I only need one layer of minicell). Sweet!"
...

Hey Greyak
After your “ideal upgrades” are you sure you aren’t getting a Kirton Inuk?

Wait… that’s not possible, it’s a British boat :slight_smile:



http://www.kirton-kayaks.co.uk/seak2.html



Mario

yep unless well rockered plum
bows will tend to generate boat slap moving forward through waves.


Inuk not actually British - or a Kirton
The import the Inuk from Nelo.



Again another interestion offshore racer that looks quite similar to the supposed flat water QCC. Hmm…

I Noticed
The Revenge has a plum bow and not enough rocker for my taste. I took it out on the open ocean before I left for vacation. I had hull slap coming back in thru 3-4’ swells…

Slapping vs. Slowing
Slapping with fuller volume vs. Slowing with fine ends. Those are the two extremes. Most designs are closer to the middle and more similar than different. Brits slightly to the right, QCCs slightly to the left.

Thanks All
I’m happy with my Night Hawk even though it slaps the waves, but it’s interesting to know why.



Lou

the plumb ends!
The plumb ends are what make the boat so appealing to the eye. Those up-swept bows look down right silly, like elves shoes without the stupid bells at the tips. Every time I see one of those kayaks, I wince. How ugly!

The shortest distance is a …

– Last Updated: Jul-21-04 6:09 PM EST –

straight line. So going through the wave would be faster than going over it. With the waves going over my deck means less energy to dissipate with the hull, and the waves increase my waterline. Ya think??
... Caribou Rick

If…
… you ignore water density, displacement, etc.



However…



When we last paddled, I saw your boat (and the NDKs and Impexes) doing quite a bit more up and down rocking horse motion than mine. How is all that cork bobbing (from having less LWL) getting you on a straigher/shorter line?

???
That was flat water… Wait till the Bacall…

2005 Bacall will be flat too
That’s my official long range forecast.



Besides, in your ‘bou, you’d better be doing the Bogey next year!



The big question is: What will Frank be paddling? He needs to up his Isthmus training. Iceman will be on his Mako, Hex will be in his EFT - that leaves Frank free and clear in under 18’ SOT if he can just “Paddle on!” instead of off!



Yeah, it was VERY flat that morning, but over the few wakes we crossed, the more Brit the hull, to more it bobbed. Maybe you didn’t notice beacuse you were bobbing with them! Maybe everyone feels steady and only sees the OTHER kayaks bobbing?

volume and hull section
Bow volume and cross section have more to do with how the boat handles seas than the sweep of the bow.



As already noted very similar appearing boats may handle waves etc… quite differently.



Boats that have as similar appearance as an NDK Explorer and a Valley Aquanaut handle the same seas differently.



The most well designed sea kayaks can handle most rational seas. It is often a matter of how the paddler feels with the manner with which the boats deals with various conditions that makes the greatest difference.

and no one has made any
referance to paddling any of these designs with 20-30 #'s of gear up there .

loaded
I paddled my Aquanaut pretty fully loaded for camping – 10 litres of water, tent, Thermarest pad, extra gear and clothing and some food and juices, etc…



Of that, well over 20lbs of it was in the bow compartment.



The boat was fine. It is an expedition boat and was quite at ease laden. This was also true of my wife’s Explorer LV.



The Explorer still rode over most all swell and chop, the Aquanaut continued to cut through small swell and chop, riding over the larger.



Both were, if anything, more confident handling seas.