Thoughts on Kayak purchase

@Supermike72 said:
I happen to be a fairly strong guy, so I’m not too concerned about my ability to power a 14-foot boat

From personal experience many moons ago:

I started out early on in a borrowed 10’ Pelican (big box store recreational boat). It was very easy for me to run up against a wall in terms of speed out vs. power in.

When you start to see a wall of water, or like a standing wave on each side of the bow, LET UP! BACK OFF! You’re completely wasting your energy. You won’t make it go any faster than that unless you can get it to plane, which you can’t. When you find that point, reduce your efforts by some amount and sit back and watch the scenery go by.

Every boat will have this point. Others can explain the physics behind it if they care to, but what matters to me is that shorter and wider boats will hit this point at a lower speed. Longer and narrower boats hit it as a higher speed. Generally not a problem if you’re not trying to get anywhere on schedule, but if you’re trying to make some distance it can be an issue.

Good info… much appreciated! My biggest plan in this boat includes “sit back and watch the scenery go by”… it’s very relaxing. When I was in Maine, I got up at 6am every morning and paddled around the lake with the loons and the fog… it was so awesome. In Hilton Head, we had a pod of dolphins swimming along with us. And in the Bahamas, we paddled through a mangrove forest with little crabs that were climbing on the branches. Go too fast, and you may miss all of that. :slight_smile:

Speed and handling comments - I just looked through some o the more recent stuff from SuperMike. What I am seeing is people warning you against making the same mistake I and my husband did and likely lots of others. We got transitional boats that we figured would do 95% of what we wanted to do, without understanding kayaks all that well. That was fine until we got them into that 5% situation, out on Muscongus Bay in Maine. We had possessed these boats for all of 12 weeks. We spent three hours stuck on an island while lines of unpredicted squalls came through . Happily we had stayed upright long enough to be pushed there by the waves. We are talking survival paddling since we had no idea what we were doing. We came back home and immediately started looking for proper sea kayaks, and luckily found someone who would take our other boats in trade against one of the sea kayaks.

I see a mention above of being in up to 2 ft seas. Granted that does not seem big, but if the waves are wind-driven and close together that can become very interesting if you also are new and don’t have rescue practice down. Which is a situation new paddlers often find.

In those conditions you want a boat with a stability profile to handle dimensional water, not a flat creek. Aside from things like having two bulkheads and perimeter line, the reality is you are not going to find a boat really designed to handle that unless you go longer than 12 feet. You can find many 12 ft boats that people here with experience have gotten thru those and probably worse conditions. But getting away it does not mean it is a good idea, especially if you are also making a decision for your wife. Both of you need to be in boats properly suited to your most difficult likely conditions, so that you don’t hit a surprise out there and find out next that you are now a solo paddler. I have seen it happen more than once.

Thank you, Celia… I appreciate the thoughts. You’re right that we should be prepared for that 5% time, particularly if we get them out on the Ohio or Lake Michigan. Glad you and your husband made it okay! I guess you can plan for calm sunny days, but you can’t plan for squall lines or unexpected wind if you’re 2-3 hours into a half-day trip.

My wife definitely wants to do this, and understands it’s better to start with what you really need and not buy cheap only to upgrade later… but she also does not want to stop and take time to help research it. “Too much going on…” (which is why we need kayaks). So to her, a 14-foot boat looks massive. lol!

Mike, the reason it seems like some of us are beating a dead horse is that we’ve been through exactly the situation you find yourself in and you might say that we learned maybe the hard and more expensive way. Celia makes the point that eventually and probably sooner than you think, you will encounter conditions that might rapidly become very threatening in boats that aren’t up to dealing with what you find yourself confronted with. A very large part of being prepared is your ability and that mostly comes with lots of experience, but even practiced experience will still have you in a bad fix in boats that just aren’t right for conditions.

A long time ago, I had my first rigid kayak and thought it was my ultimate do-it-all boat. It was a very well built 13’-8" boat that has a nice cruising speed. I had taken a paddle up river with the plan that it would be easy to come back downriver on the return trip. It all seemed like simple logic. Things aren’t always that simple. On the way back downstream, the tide had changed and was coming in with a vengeance and had a strong wind helping push it along. As I paddled along, I soon realized I was not gaining ground and no matter how hard I paddled, I was just maintaining my position. A quick calculation in my head told me that the tide would be running in for many more hours and I would be out there in the dark and probably worn to a frazzle. I was able to find a way to finally make headway, but it was still a very hard slog to get back to my launch site.

That experience was not the only one that brought me to where I am now, but it might have been the beginning. I now own four kayaks–two of them are extremely capable all-conditions sea kayaks. Believe me, there is nothing like having a boat that you absolutely are sure will get you where you want to go, no matter how hairy it gets. Even better is that the boat does it so easily that big waves, strong wind and whatever else is going on just adds to the fun.

You might not think that speed is all that important, but I assure you that it will become important as will the overall competence of the boat and the operator. The operator will improve with lots of practice, but a boat that lacks certain characteristics will not.

This is my longwinded way of saying don’t be surprised if you get the bug real bad and sooner than you might imagine, you’ll be boat shopping again and maybe again. You might stave that off a bit longer by being very careful on the first purchase. Good luck and happy paddling.

So, I just bought two 10ft sun dolphin kayaks from Rural King…

Just kidding! Thought I’d give you all a jolt. lol! I am very thankful for all the advice and input received thus far. It has been extraordinarily helpful as I slough through all the options. I believe I have a MUCH better idea now of what I want/need, have increased my budget, and will shop carefully and accordingly. I may not get to try before I buy unless I happen upon just the right opportunity, but I feel much more confident now in my direction. Thank you all for helping me along!

I’m still open to additional advice/input, but hopefully soon I’ll see some of you on the water somewhere!

Mike

SM,you have to be an engineer!
An old boss had a sign in his office: " There comes a time when you need to shoot the engineer and get on with the project."
Take your best shot and get to it.

@string Pretty close - IT architect. We have to analyze and re-analyze what we’re about to do 10x before flipping a switch, lest we bring down the whole company. And even then, when unforseen things happen, you get thrown over the coals for not knowing why some unknown bug came back to bite you. LOL!

@Supermike72 said:
So, I just bought two 10ft sun dolphin kayaks from Rural King…

LOL - got me! I was browsing on my phone and had to put it down right after I read this line. Cursing aloud “WTF! I thought that guy had some sense!”. It was only after firing up my computer to see the rest of the chatter that I find you have a good sense of humour too.

What @Celia and @magooch said recently, you can’t buy great advice like that. Fortunately when I was shopping for boats I must have come across similar advice because I went right to a full sized fiberglass boat. Though I was strongly considering a 14’ Necky at the time. I’ve never looked back, though I have seen various plastic boats come and go from my shed in the meantime while searching for something I can bash against the rocks but still enjoy paddling.

LOL! Sorry @Sparky961 - all in good fun! :slight_smile:

Speaking of Necky, I’ve also looked closely at the Manitou 14 and the Looksha 14, but still find myself going back to the Tsunamis. The Manitou looks like it’s about to bend in half, and the Looksha has ‘okay’ reviews, but I found a lot of folks telling more about what they don’t like than what they do. The Tsunamis, on the other hand, seem to be all “love it” stuff.

Either way - you folks have spoken, and I have heard your pleas. I’ve moved beyond 10-12-footers (though my wife will probably freak when she sees the size of the 14 foot boats, but she’ll get over it). ha! Also, I will likely pay a visit to an REI or find a paddling shop somewhere when choosing a paddle and pfd, so we can make sure they fit right.

Now you’ve opened a new can of worms!
A good paddle , IMHO, is more important than the boat unless the boat is junk.
I went from a 240cm aluminum and plastic beast very quickly to a fiberglass and nylon ,to an all carbon fiber paddle , 215 cm.
Aquabound makes a good carbon shaft, nylon blade paddle that won’t destroy the budget that is a good starter paddle. Campmor has them at a good price. Oh, and I use a home made Greenland style at 220 cm.
Length is worthy of another thesis and there are many in the archives. Length is dependent be on your body . Shoulder width, height, and arm length all play into it. Then there is blade width.
Epic and Werner,I think, have on line programs to help.
The best thing to do is borrow paddles of different lengths and try them with your boat.
The coolest , most comfortable PFD I have owned is an Astral V-8.

Haha… that might be putting the cart before the horse, so to speak… Heck, I still have to figure out how I’m going to haul and store them. Too many irons in the fire. But, the pencil is getting sharper.

Thanks for the tips!

@Supermike72 said:
Speaking of Necky, I’ve also looked closely at the Manitou 14 and the Looksha 14, but still find myself going back to the Tsunamis. The Manitou looks like it’s about to bend in half, and the Looksha has ‘okay’ reviews, but I found a lot of folks telling more about what they don’t like than what they do. The Tsunamis, on the other hand, seem to be all “love it” stuff.

Though my personal experience is limited here, I suspect that Wilderness Systems builds their plastic boats more rigidly and robustly than any Necky I’ve witnessed. Now WS’s crazy 100-way adjustable lounger seats… jury’s still out on that one. Maybe I’m just jealous because I have to sit in a hard fiberglass bowl.

Based on the 2 Neckys I’ve owned, their seats suck. Butt, I’m heavy with bony hips.
The WS Phase 3 seat is far more comfortable.

Do you have a trailer hitch on your truck? You can get a T-rack that slips into the hitch ball reciever that will support the stern of a boat while the bow can be mounted over the cab using foam blocks or a hollow foam pool noodle strapped around the cab roof with long nylon straps. Be sure to guy the bow and stern to the front and rear bumpers as well as to whatever cross bar rigs you use.

Thanks! That’s actually exactly what I’m looking into… Considered using an extender but even if it goes 4’ that still only covers 9 of the 14, so have to go overhead or get a trailer. I’ll figure something out! :slight_smile:

I carry my 16’ kayak flat in the bed of my p/u with an extender. I use two straps to hold it and it is very secure. One strap on the extender and one to the truck.
Our state requires that it have a flag attached.
.

Other hauling options: I used to be a construction project manager before I retired and several times had company pickups with the open type ladder rack frames on them, rather than a cap. If I owned a pickup myself that is what I would have. Completely leaves your bed free for loading whatever you want but gives you a frame to haul long stuff on. It also is great for when you haul something that you don’t want to get wet in transit or need to enclose in some way since you can use the frame to support plywood or tarps. I have even gone camping using a pickup with a ladder rack and slept in the bed with an army surplus mosquito net draped and tied over it and a tarp on the top. I realize some people don’t like the way they look, but they sure are functional.

Also, used pickup truck caps are very cheap in most areas on Craigslist. My ex had two pickup trucks (a nice one for the road and a beater for use on his farm and wood lot) and he got caps for both for under $50 each.

I have a couple boats today that match your budget and description. See: http://www.nighthawkcanoes.com/sale-canoes-details/

@Nighthawk Canoes said:
I have a couple boats today that match your budget and description. See: http://www.nighthawkcanoes.com/sale-canoes-details/

Did you even read the thread before posting your ad? None of the boats I saw after clicking the link even remotely match what has been discussed. Or maybe someone can set me straight and tell me what I missed…