Yellowstone Incident Report

The scary thing is that most tourists trust their guides to know what they’re doing.

@grayhawk said:
The scary thing is that most tourists trust their guides to know what they’re doing.

Indeed. I’ve met both good and bad. Everyone needs to do thier research and ask a lot of questions.

When we were there the wind arrived each day at noon. It was strong and blew up some impressive waves in the 55 degree water. Which the guides said was unusually warm.

I think we got a more better group for our three day trip. The guide wore hydroskins. They issued spray skirts an splash gear with booties and talked out rescues. But there wasn’t any real training.

Sad story. Sounds like the outfitter was very unprepared for anything but ideal conditions.

55* water is certainly cold and dangerous, but 30mins in 55* water shouldn’t kill you (based on the cold water boot camp videos). He had to have been in the water an hour or longer I would think.

This is one reason I love my surf skis; easy to remount, impossible to take on water. Something like the epic v7 almost seems like a better fit for these type of day trips. Seems there is a larger inherent safety margin for the inexperienced and still wide enough that almost anyone can paddle.

That huge deck bag probably didn’t help anything when conditions got bad either.

Hopefully Yellowstone changes their guide policy so that extensive safety training / wet rescue / cold water prep is required. As a kid I went on a wilderness inquiry sea kayaking trip on Lake Superior. The had us in 4mm wetsuits (quite gross to share an outfitter wetsuit, but safe) and it paid off. The wind picked up and 2 boats capsized heading back to camp. Not a big deal though, guide deployed a paddle float, assisted the other person in, got in, and was back on track. In retrospect, a very knowledgeable guide

@MCImes said:
Sad story. Sounds like the outfitter was very unprepared for anything but ideal conditions.

55* water is certainly cold and dangerous, but 30mins in 55* water shouldn’t kill you (based on the cold water boot camp videos). He had to have been in the water an hour or longer I would think.

I’m not sure where you sourced the 55 degree water temperature? The air temperature at the time of the incident was 53 degrees. Furthermore, the article referenced above states Reports put the temperature of the lake between 38 and 40 degrees.

That is d@m cold.

Ah. I must have mis-read air vs water. That makes a lot more sense then

And in that case, WTF was that company doing??? Any “professional” company should have taken at least some precautions. Newbies in 40* water in a large lake, with no skirt, no thermal protection, with conditions known to change quickly is practically a perfect recipe for a cold water death. They are guilty of gross negligence I would say…

The guides themselves were newbies. They had zero training from what I read. 5th time EVER in a kayak for one of them.
Cold water no skirts BUT skirts would have killed grandpa as he would have never gotten out of over turned boat. Same for guides too. Just a bunch of rank beginners with three pretending to be experts. Sounds like there only qualifications is that they new were to paddle to and from. .

A point of order. My trip out there was in July.

@dc9mm said:
The guides themselves were newbies. They had zero training from what I read. 5th time EVER in a kayak for one of them.
Cold water no skirts BUT skirts would have killed grandpa as he would have never gotten out of over turned boat. Same for guides too. Just a bunch of rank beginners with three pretending to be experts. Sounds like there only qualifications is that they new were to paddle to and from. .

I don’t think they were pretending to be experts. They just didn’t know what they didn’t know and did their best…and that was good enough to save the older tourist who fell out of his boat and get him to shore, under some tough circumstances. Given that Conant, the deceased, was wearing street clothes and did nothing to try to get back into or on his kayak makes me think he suffered from cold water shock when he first went in. It’s a tragedy that never should have happened.

The National Center for Cold Water Safety filed a FOIA and obtained the official report (redacted). It’s about 102 pages long and has a lot more detail than the news reports.

The tour operator, OARS, is the guilty party and should have its license revoked, if it has one for 2018.

I have always disagreed with that “120 degrees total” notion on air and water temps for safety. There are often early Spring sunny days when there has been snow melt in the mountains and air temps are 75 but water is barely 45. Would YOU go paddling on a windy lake in those conditions w/o skirt and immersion clothing? I would not. I think if you are going to use a questionable “formula” it should be more like 140 degrees. Even that is marginal. I would not paddle in street clothes on an 80 degree day with 60 degree water nor a 90 degree day with 50 degree water especially with newbies who could not reliably self rescue or roll. But I have paddled (and been immersed) in just hydroskins on a 60 degree air day with 80 degree water and been OK. So that is not a great planning formula.

I agree that Conant’s death timeline likely started with cold shock and not “hypothermia”. A lot of very fit guys, even younger ones, are vulnerable to mortality from cold conditions as they have little fat on them and high metabolic heat loss to begin with. I learned that on land when I used to teach winter backpacking and mountaineering skills. I’m well padded and women’s metabolism tends to be core-heat conservative (probably an evolutionary adaptation to protect a fetus). We get cold hands and feet faster than men do, but that’s because our bodies react to cold by conserving heat in our trunks and slowing down our metabolism. Men’s warmer hands and feet are radiating more heat so they will get hypothermic faster and are more statistically susceptible to frostbite as their reserves drain. Muscles are not great insulators.

When I was responsible for relative newbies in cold conditions I had to monitor them for behavioral signs of hypothermia and incipient tissue freezing and it was most often the most fit athletic guys who exhibited symptoms early on – signs were stammering and shivering or acting disoriented, belligerent or apathetic. I used to dread when I would find out that enrollees in the courses were former military or semi-pro athletes. The majority of the cold ailment caused rescue evacuations that I participated in during my years of guiding trips were the big strapping confident jocks. Not only physically vulnerable to cold, but psychologically resistant to asking for or accepting advice and aid, also more likely to become dehydrated and hypoglycemic due to not consuming enough steady calories.

Eventually I added a key part of class orientation that taught students how to be aware of early signs of cold-related ailments in themselves and in their companions. As in SCUBA diving, we assigned a “buddy system” where class members had to continually check on their partner while trekking. And I would always force a stop IMMEDIATELY by the whole group to get warmth back into somebody who was starting to show even early signs of body heat deterioration, even if it was myself – it can be easy to neglect one’s own safety hygiene when focused on that of students, something that apparently was a factor in Conant’s unfortunate demise. I realize that water immersion is a different animal (acute cold shock is not much of a factor in winter backpacking, except when somebody breaks through ice during a stream crossing) but I think the training and precaution principals are the same.

The gross lack of training and preparedness by that group is really unsettling.

When I saw the headline, I was thinking it was another misguided complaint that the “Outdoors” should be a risk-free Disneyland? So much for my assumptions.

Wow…just, WOW! I too would assume the “Guide” would be an experienced, expert paddler experienced in paddling the area they’re “Guiding?” And the lack of preparedness and seemingly arrogance on a lake that is notorious for cold water and high winds? Unless they’ve removed the signs, Yellowstone, et al those lakes have warning signs regarding the cold temperatures and high winds lest the “Guides” forget?

And Willowleaf has some excellent points; there is NO exact “Formula” as there are so many variables besides air and water temperatures. Wind speed, sunshine or cloudiness, humidity, precipitation, and (as she astutely pointed out) body fat content all must be taken into account. I simply dress for a swim and that means sometimes I may be a bit warm. Too bad the “Guides,” (it just KILLS me to call them that) did not have a modicum of the experience and forsight of Willowleaf! Like any other tourist, I would have assumed otherwise.

5 times in a boat; you’re good to go as a guide…
My daughter would have qualified when she was in kindergarten.

BOB

My dogs would be ready to run the company.

A guide with the skills of Michael Phelps can only do so much for customers who’ve been drinking during the night and hardly sleeping… Not a definitive statement but factual info doesn’t always come from the victim’s side of the story…who is often ready to seek monetary gains, through the legal system, as the first option rather than getting in top shape(physically) beforehand. Not any excuse for the guide but just sayin’…I do get an idea of how lax some of the locals can be…to say the least.

@BigSpencer - um, the victim in this case was a guide. Thankfully the customers all survived.

Yeah, but a big part of being an experienced guide with good judgement is self-protection. If I assess that one or more clients is not sufficiently capable of NOT being a liability to ME and others, either due to lack of cognitive or physical fitness or an uncooperative attitude, they simply don’t get to go on the trip. I’m never willing to risk my own safety and even life for some bumbling jerk with a hangover or a Rambo fixation. And I know from what my outing club went through trying to formulate a “liability release” form that such documents are rarely any sort of defense if a client or their survivors elect to sue.

so sad that this happened. A tragedy for the fellow guides, clients, rescue workers, and of course Conant’s family. This reminds me a bit of the Patagonia fatality (Doug Tompkins) where water temperature and a lack of proper clothing (multiple insulating layers under a dry suit) resulted in a fatal outcome. It seems cold water and its numbing chill cares not about title (guide) or reputation (a founder of North Face.) So let’s dress for the water temp, spending the money necessary to do so on proper clothing, and understand that just “getting by” can end tragically when cold water is involved. These folks simply weren’t prepared for a swim.

Nice thing about cold water is that “overdressing” need not be a problem. If you get hot, just dunk yourself. If you are underdressed you can be really screwed, though.

@willowleaf said:
Nice thing about cold water is that “overdressing” need not be a problem. If you get hot, just dunk yourself. If you are underdressed you can be really screwed, though.

That works if you’re in a kayak and have a reliable roll. Canoeists and those without a roll are out of luck.

repeatedly dunking your hat is a great way to cool off, I used that technique this past saturday to stay cool in the semi-drysuit, since my roll is sketchy.