Yellowstone Incident Report

5 times in a boat; you’re good to go as a guide…
My daughter would have qualified when she was in kindergarten.

BOB

My dogs would be ready to run the company.

A guide with the skills of Michael Phelps can only do so much for customers who’ve been drinking during the night and hardly sleeping… Not a definitive statement but factual info doesn’t always come from the victim’s side of the story…who is often ready to seek monetary gains, through the legal system, as the first option rather than getting in top shape(physically) beforehand. Not any excuse for the guide but just sayin’…I do get an idea of how lax some of the locals can be…to say the least.

@BigSpencer - um, the victim in this case was a guide. Thankfully the customers all survived.

Yeah, but a big part of being an experienced guide with good judgement is self-protection. If I assess that one or more clients is not sufficiently capable of NOT being a liability to ME and others, either due to lack of cognitive or physical fitness or an uncooperative attitude, they simply don’t get to go on the trip. I’m never willing to risk my own safety and even life for some bumbling jerk with a hangover or a Rambo fixation. And I know from what my outing club went through trying to formulate a “liability release” form that such documents are rarely any sort of defense if a client or their survivors elect to sue.

so sad that this happened. A tragedy for the fellow guides, clients, rescue workers, and of course Conant’s family. This reminds me a bit of the Patagonia fatality (Doug Tompkins) where water temperature and a lack of proper clothing (multiple insulating layers under a dry suit) resulted in a fatal outcome. It seems cold water and its numbing chill cares not about title (guide) or reputation (a founder of North Face.) So let’s dress for the water temp, spending the money necessary to do so on proper clothing, and understand that just “getting by” can end tragically when cold water is involved. These folks simply weren’t prepared for a swim.

Nice thing about cold water is that “overdressing” need not be a problem. If you get hot, just dunk yourself. If you are underdressed you can be really screwed, though.

@willowleaf said:
Nice thing about cold water is that “overdressing” need not be a problem. If you get hot, just dunk yourself. If you are underdressed you can be really screwed, though.

That works if you’re in a kayak and have a reliable roll. Canoeists and those without a roll are out of luck.

repeatedly dunking your hat is a great way to cool off, I used that technique this past saturday to stay cool in the semi-drysuit, since my roll is sketchy.

@willowleaf said:
Nice thing about cold water is that “overdressing” need not be a problem. If you get hot, just dunk yourself.

Amen to that. It’s almost more important for me to roll to cool off than to self-rescue.

I don’t have a reliable roll yet but I’m very comfortable doing a static balance brace (sort of a half roll). When I’ve canoed mild whitewater in cool water/warm weather (encased in a sticky wetsuit) I just scoop up water with my hat (usually an OR Seattle Sombrero) and dump it over my head and down my neck.

@willowleaf said:
I don’t have a reliable roll yet but I’m very comfortable doing a static balance brace (sort of a half roll).

off subject, but this is confusing to me.
the ‘1/2’ roll you have it the ‘hard’ part, I think you really have a full ‘roll’ capability.
when upside down, you should just be able to ‘float up’ to a balance brace position, then ‘come on up’.

maybe my thinking is because I learned a roll first, then much later the “balance brace”.

You’re right, but I don’t practice rolling as I should, now that I have mastered coming up out of the full balance brace. My reluctance to voluntarily roll has nothing to do with fear of submersion or lack of knowing the sequence. I have permanent inner ear problems on my left side due to a bike crash and fractured skull 40 years ago and rolling can trigger very uncomfortable vertigo and sustained nausea (had to drop out of Aikido due to that and can no longer happily ride roller coasters). Doesn’t always happen, and I can still function when it does (so I am not going to drown or have to be rescued if i had to do a combat roll) , but it pretty much ruins my day. So I am not ever going to be inclined to roll just to cool off.

for me i can still do head dinks all day long on the back deck of a ww kayak, but have no forward flexibility. I expect my ability to lean forward to improve with time and rehab and again reacquire a roll. Heck, I got two new hips to wear out, it’s been a couple of months since they put the last one so it won’t be long before I’m trying that, right now though just focused on paddling. I do routinely paddle class II and III in a kayak without a roll but I’m always thinking “Am I willing to swim this?” That’s my upen boat mentality.

You won’t catch me far from shore on a cold lake (like Yellowstone) in a kayak. With a group of canoes, I might consider it. We could raft up if things got rough and pull swimmers into the uncapsized boats. I’ve got more personal experience with that type of rescue/situation (groups of canoes). I’d be dressed for the water temp as well. In general, yellowstone lake is a place I’ve “respected”. I’ve driven right by it with a kayak on the car because my personal skillset wasn’t up for the environment. Someplace else I’l like to visit and paddle is crater lake- my understanding is that it is another deep cold lake with some areas where it is impossible or difficult to get out onto shore. A roll will be on my essential skill list If I attempt that.

I’ve heard of others getting nauseau or vertigo rolling over. At one time I developed sinus and ear problems from kayaking. Ended up getting the surgery (got reamed and straightened out) which helped but made me more allergic to pollen (now I give myself shots). Still remember how it felt when they pull the strings and pop the tampons out of your nostrils after surgery.

If I felt nauseau while kayaking it was from swallowing my dip or getting flipped around while bein’ upside down in a big rapid or a combination of both. I did video boat (for a commercial raft trip) once badly hung over- ahhh the glory days, some of them definately ain’t worth repeatin’…

So I get an email today with trips I must paddle this year. The email is from Paddling.com. One is Jackson Lake . Guess who is the guide for this trip, yes OARS. Yes the same place that were talking about here that are clearly incompetent. I thought that was funny.

I got the same e-mail…I was very surprised that there was no mention of The Apostle Islands…among the perfect places to paddle, the islands are all the proper distance apart for a pee break and a granola bar. And caves!!!

@dc9mm said:
So I get an email today with trips I must paddle this year. The email is from Paddling.com. One is Jackson Lake . Guess who is the guide for this trip, yes OARS. Yes the same place that were talking about here that are clearly incompetent. I thought that was funny.

O.A.R.S. is a large company offering adventure trips beyond the scale of just paddling. Was the Yellowstone incident a management blunder by their paddling management? We’ll likely never know. Their web site won’t mention the resolution of the problem within the company; that might lead to their demise. I do notice that in addition to the Jackson Lake trip, paddling.com also mentions several other O.A.R.S. sponsored trips e.g.
“Idaho Kayaking School for Beginners”
It’s not clear to me … is that a course for beginning paddlers or beginning guides?

It looks to be the same company that had this screw up death with complete newbee paddlers as guides. Paddling.com might want to drop this particular outfit at THAT location. Other locations might not be run as badly.; But if done at one location it might be done at others. Probably money being paid to guides is so low that they take anyone. Just a guess.

Got it Peter-CA…

@thebob.com said:
5 times in a boat; you’re good to go as a guide…
My daughter would have qualified when she was in kindergarten.

BOB

Doggone it, my nephews could also be “Guides!” Never thought of that