Feathering paddle and wrist motion

Advice
#34

I am curious about the control hand statements earlier in this thread. Could someone elaborate why one should not use a control hand with a feathered paddle, and what one should do instead to twist the paddle shaft into the correct position before the catch?

I would like to give some background for my question:
When I do a paddle stroke, the paddle shaft twists forwards during the stroke. So with an unfeathered paddle, I will after the stroke have to twist the paddle shaft backwards (bending my wrist up) so I reset the paddle blade position before I do the catch in the opposite side.

Whether this is caused by body mechanics or by a subconscious effort to keep the blade perpendicular to the kayak movement direction during upper body rotation I don’t know. I just know that it happens. I also know that it is not just me who does it this way, because:

2 years ago I joined a wing paddle class. Here the concept of “correct feathering” was explained. The feathering for a right-handed wing paddle is correct when you can go directly from the end of a stroke on your left side to the catch on your right side without doing anything to reset the paddle blade position. So this acknowledges that the above described twist of the paddle shaft during the stroke is actually supposed to happen.

OK. With the basics down, now let us go back to the control hand issue. What happens when we end a stroke with a right-hand feathered paddle on the right side and want to do a catch on the left side?

It should be obvious from the above that we need to twist the shaft backwards a lot - double of what is needed with an unfeathered paddle. Not only will we have to reset the twist we did during the stroke on our right side - we also have to counter the feathering.

I think it is also obvious that our left hand hasn’t followed the twist of the shaft during the stroke on our right side. We push with an open hand, so the shaft will twist freely in the open hand. So our left hand will now be in the wrong position on the paddle shaft.

As I see it, we now have two choices when we want to bring our left hand into the correct position on the paddle shaft and twist the paddle shaft before the stroke:

  1. We can twist the shaft backwards with our right hand, letting it slide in our left hand. The right hand is probably already in a good initial position for this, because it will have followed the paddle in its forward twist during the stroke. Now both the paddle and the left hand are in the correct position.
  2. We can bend our left hand forward - a lot. Then grab the paddle shaft and then twist back the paddle shaft. Now both the paddle and the left hand are in the correct position.

To me, method 1 seems to be a much simpler and easier movement than method 2. And method 1 is the control hand method as I understand it.

So those of you who use a feathered paddle without a control hand, do you really use method 2? Or is there a method 3 which I haven’t considered?

I acknowledge that this topic will be difficult to discuss, because most of us don’t really think what we are doing when doing a movement. And we will often vehemently claim that we are doing the movement in one way while we are in fact doing it in a completely different way.

My favourite example of this disconnect between what we do and what we think we do, is making a turn on a bicycle. Most people will deny that when they want to turn to the left, they start by turning the handle bars to the right. They will claim that they turn them to the left. But to keep the balance during the turn, you need to lean to the left. And the way you make yourself and the bicycle lean to the left is by turning the handle bars a bit to the right.

#35

Control hand thing, talking about me l presume. Fyi l watched this whole dialogue play out in a class with Ben Lawry. My recall is that he paddles with a feather, but its been a good long time so that could be wrong.

When l do mess around with feather l think l use number 1 above. Can’t vouch for whether the left hand gets a bit involved in returning the paddle to a forward angle as l finish the stroke though. I would have be on the water to check it out.

But l have never once thought of my more functional hand as being controlling nor been required to. As the stroke moves from side to side with a feathered paddle the shaft has to rotate for a good entry into the water. I happen to be right handed so that determines which end spins how, but in the power phase each hand is alternately doing the same work.

To me the shaft rotation is just something l do to get a clean blade angle and the hands are the servant of that goal. It may partly come from my earlier paddle boat time being a sit and switch canoeist. In my younger days l putzed around over moderate distances without any training. So l never learned a j stroke then. Speaking of something that is difficult on my aging wrists…

Back to the start of this thread, for someone starting out new calling one hand a control hand has two risks. One is exactly what the oper states he is doing, bending his wrist back and forth with likely a tighter grip than is needed. Not good for the wrist. The other is that it can take focus away from things like torso rotation and blade placement that will pretty much set up the rest of,it.

#36

In wind, I do not paddle with a high angle. I’m not sure I ever do except for steering manoeuvers in moving water. This may be why I have fewer issues with wind with an unfeathered paddle.

#37

I think we’re over-thinking this and my head hurts.

#38

Me too. I guess we’re not great thinkers.

#39

@Celia said:
But l have never once thought of my more functional hand as being controlling nor been required to. As the stroke moves from side to side with a feathered paddle the shaft has to rotate for a good entry into the water. I happen to be right handed so that determines which end spins how, but in the power phase each hand is alternately doing the same work.

To me, it sounds like you are paddling with a control hand. You just avoid thinking about it as a control hand.

I don’t think that the difference between what your two hands do is caused by you being right handed. I am pretty sure that it is caused by the paddle being feathered for a right hand person. If you feathered it for a left hand person, your hand motions would switch sides, even though you are still right handed.

#40

“Or is there a method 3 which I haven’t considered?”
Method 3.
You are at the end of your power phase on the right side. Your left blade will need to rotate to be in position for the catch. But what else needs to happen?
Your right blade needs to be lifted from the water into the air.
At the end of the stroke, if I keep my wrist straight, and do nothing but a straight-wristed curl with my right hand, from the extended position in the water, all the way up onto my shoulder, I have rotated my left paddle closer to 180 degrees. This is obviously too far, and that’s not how you want your right hand to end up. But it illustrates that you have a whole lot of rotation that can happen without flexing your wrist. With a high angle stroke, keeping my elbow down, I would rotate well over 90 degrees. Now I don’t keep my elbow down when I raise my right hand. I lift my elbow as well. So what happens is that in between raising my hand, and raising my elbow, I end with the proper amount of rotation for the left-hand stroke. None of this involves bending my wrist to control blade angle.
If you think of the paddler’s box, and rotation, and how the blade face angle needs to remain constant in relation to the water while changing in relating to the direction your arms are pointing, that’s a good way to think about the whole thing. I don’t know anyone who describes that as something that they actively control with a firm grip and shaft rotation as they progress through the stroke. Most seem to say the power-face locks in and finds it’s way with a loose grip and proper solid rotation. I find that to be true. Likewise, I raise the shaft on my thumb with both hands, with well-developed calluses on the thumb of each hand. The control of rotation is loose and not concentrated upon. The control is subtle, and doesn’t require something so deliberate as a control hand with a grip and wrist twist.

“I will after the stroke have to twist the paddle shaft backwards (bending my wrist up) so I reset the paddle blade position before I do the catch in the opposite side.”

A different version: When I raise my hand from the water, the shaft will rotate backwards with my hand without bending my wrist. The higher angle I lift to, the higher I will need to raise my elbow to control over-rotation, so I reset the paddle blade position before I do the catch on the opposite side.

#41

Cape Fear. Thanks. Yes.
Alanoleson, my husband was left-handed. Neither of us found any use for thinking of a hand as controlling.

#42

@string said:
Me too. I guess we’re not great thinkers.
me three, for heavens sake, been paddling around 35 years, feathered (right & left), unfeathered, euro, wing, greenland (not so much), and couldn’t tell you anything about a control hand (hey, get your mind out of the gutter).

It probably says more about why I can do but not teach.

#43

@magooch said:
I think we’re over-thinking this and my head hurts.

Ditto.

#44

@raisins said:

It probably says more about why I can do but not teach.

You teach well because you skip all the extra talk and just go for what’s not working after observing.

#45

I briefly flirted with feather (or was that Heather?) for a short time when I first started out. I quickly found that it did me no good and have paddled neutral ever since. Reading this thread I’m glad to have done so because it seems way too complicated.

#46

Sparky
When my husband and I started things were loosening up, but in general folks still got started off with some feather. With the advice that if it didn’t work for you try reducing/removing it.

What got both Jim and I to no feather was starting to learn rolling, seemed to simplify things not to have to to adjust the paddle side to side.

Subsequent to that the emphasis on high angle paddling dominated. And more people messing with Greenland or Alook paddles. To feather or not got very optional in many circles.

#47

@Sparky961 said:
I briefly flirted with feather (or was that Heather?) for a short time when I first started out. I quickly found that it did me no good and have paddled neutral ever since. Reading this thread I’m glad to have done so because it seems way too complicated.

I did the same. A paddle was one of the first things I bought for myself instead of using equipment from the club. The very reason was that the club paddles had fixed feather, and I wanted to paddle unfeathered.

However, I have after some years discovered that paddling unfeathered with an euro paddle makes my catch sort of sloppy. I do not twist the paddle enough before the catch, after taking the other blade out of the water. I still get a paddle stroke, but it is less efficient.

When I paddle feathered, my catch on the right side of the boat will automatically have the correct twist (at least if I used the correct amount of feather). So here I will get a good catch and an efficient stroke. And on my left side, I will be forced to think about twisting the paddle so much that I get the same quality of catch on both sides of the boat.

So paddling feathered from time to time can in my opinion be good for avoiding to get sloppy.

#48

Hey 12t, Not only will you not have wrist issues with the Greenland paddle, you also don’t have to think about the right side being up or the power face being right. All these feathering words… unnecessary.

#49

Here’s another little detail that some paddlers including myself might have a difference of opinion. I’ve read paddle ads that pointed out that their paddle shaft was oval shaped to fit your hand more comfortably. I’ve always thought that it is oval shaped so that you can sense with your hand that the blade is indexed correctly to enter the water. Whether, or not the oval feels better is secondary–or so goes my thinking. I’ve never broached the subject with a manufacturer. Anyway, I’m very happy that my paddles have oval shafts (in the hand areas).

#50

The oval shaft may help some. The feel of having some water under your blade, or behind it for forward paddling, is more tangible to me.

#51

If you look at your closed hand, it tends to be oval shaped.

#52

String, I get that. But my most tactile feeling with the paddle to solve a paddling problem, upside down or right side up, is how well my blade is grabbing water. Whether the shaft is round or oval is not noticeable compared to the feeling of water supporting the blade.

#53

@magooch said:
Here’s another little detail that some paddlers including myself might have a difference of opinion. I’ve read paddle ads that pointed out that their paddle shaft was oval shaped to fit your hand more comfortably. I’ve always thought that it is oval shaped so that you can sense with your hand that the blade is indexed correctly to enter the water. Whether, or not the oval feels better is secondary–or so goes my thinking. I’ve never broached the subject with a manufacturer. Anyway, I’m very happy that my paddles have oval shafts (in the hand areas).

Thanks for the thought. Don’t think our paddles are oval (Werner something) but I find myself checking the orientation of the blade as it enters the water-- mostly when I’m not moving through the water at a rate I would be expecting. Hafta check tomorrow. Hoping to go out around 7- 8AM for our first morning paddle ever.

Coffee still comes first!