Wow: "Tariffs Set to Hit Paddlesports Hard"

Here is the article in question, for those that don"t get the email from paddling.com
https://paddling.com/learn/tariffs-set-to-hit-paddlesports-hard

I have no control over what the site administration does or does not post.
My position remains the same. I have NO interest in politics.

I resent the implication (veiled put down) that I am just sticking my head in the sand, if I do not agree, or agree to disagree with somebody else’s personal or political agenda.

I am well educated, and have common sense enough to make an informed decision for myself. If someone does not like my decision; that would be their problem, not mine.

BOB

This is slightly dated, but still applies today.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/china/trade.html

@willowleaf said:
We all need to be aware that who we vote for eventually will affect our quality of life. If we don’t stay aware of how political actions could deprive us the things we love to do and get involved in making sure that does not happen, who is going to do it for us? Saying “I don’t want to hear about that stuff” is sticking your head in the sand.

Very well stated! Quality of life has already been impacted, possibly to the point of no return. A recent, exhaustively investigated, article in the New York Times traced the history blow by blow of exactly how we managed to miss so many opportunities to do something about climate change since the 1970s. For me personally, quality of life now depends entirely on an air conditioner. Contemplating life without paddling (due to whatever cause—loss of protected lands, access closures, climate change) makes my heart sink.

While I may not agree with one side, or the other on certain issues, it’s when it turns political that it all goes in the dumper. There is one party that describes the other as being deplorable. Those of the other persuasion think the former are despicable, stupid and insane. Neither side is intetested in the others opinlons and that is just the way it is.

When I go paddling, I don’t care and don’t want to know which side a fellow paddler favors. Unless they try to unload their insanity on me.

@thebob.com said:
I have NO interest in politics.
I resent the implication (veiled put down) that I am just sticking my head in the sand . . .

The solution for you seems exquisitely simple: skip any threads that don’t interest you. But to state, “I have NO interest in politics” sure hints at sticking your head in the sand. I’m not okay with other people doing the hard work of standing up for my rights or fixing problems that impact me. We owe a debt of gratitude to people like Willowleaf who do more than just paddle, ON OUR BEHALF. The last election was decided by people who didn’t vote.

If you meant to say, “I have no interest in politics on this website” my answer is similar. Skip what doesn’t interest you, but remember that politics, the environment, and paddling are very intricately connected. You can’t have one without the other, and SOMEONE needs to be interested and willing to act. You’re not interested in political discussion and action? Fine, but don’t think you can chase off those who are. They’re a tough group. Some of them didn’t spend years fight against things like the Vietnam War, air and water pollution, and civil rights to be bullied when we need them the most. “Ease on down the road?” I think not.

Now that I think about it, this website needs a Paddling Political Advocay forum. The site took a strong commercial turn a couple of years ago. The article by the vice president of Sea Eagle shows just how tight the connection is between commerce and politics.

With such a forum then those that are interested could participate and those that don’t wish could easily skip it, For example I don’t fish and I don’t visit the fishing forum…
I think that whether you find it distasteful or wish to engage politics are a part of preserving ( or not) the outdoors and paddling opportunites; not to mention clean water.

Simple solution… Buy American Made

A few things that do and would keep me from paddling (and spending money on all things related to paddling):

(1) Heat and humidity
(2) Dirty water
(3) Poor access roads
(4) Lack of a decent launch
(5) Private property all around a lake
(6) Public land closed to the public (yes, that exists)
(7) Low river level due to drought
(8) Lack of camping opportunities due to stingy management of public lands
(9) Bacteria, slime, invasive plants, invasive animals caused by excessively warm water
(10) Unpleasant swimming due to warm water
(11) Deforestation along waterways, which removes shade
(12) Speedboat law breakers
(13) Overcrowding of ponds and lakes by paddlers due to limited access to places to paddle
(14) Heavy smoke from forest fires

The majority of those concerns are political in one way or another and can only be solved if enough people care about them. Sadly, sometimes we only start to care when it’s too late to do anything about it, which will make discussions about things like which kayak should I buy and which paddle is better, moot.

That’s not an exhaustive list. For example, recreation itself becomes moot if most of the population is struggling to survive at an elemental level due to income disparity. That could be what led the VP of Sea Eagle to associate paddling with the middle class.

@grayhawk said:
Simple solution… Buy American Made

When ever I can if it’s available.

Again, in what way is pointing out that the prospective tariffs will likely impact the kayak gear markets “political”? The tariff policies are a reality, not an “opinion”, and they have predictable consequences that people ought to think hard about. I’ve protested objectionable policies from both Republican and Democratic administrations and Congresses over my lifetime – being concerned about how specific actions by the government can impact you and your community is not “political” or “partisan”, it is your responsibility as a citizen. It is very narrow-minded to accuse someone of being “partisan” because they object to certain legislation. People are not objecting to the tariffs because they “think the other side is deplorable” but because the tariffs are causing a domino effect of economic grief.

[I will make one “political” observation, that it was the Republicans during Obama’s tenure who turned legislation whole hog into a political agenda, blocking anything he initiated or supported out of spite because HE wanted it even if it was a good idea (and even one they themselves wanted, like affordable health care.) We can’t afford either partisan spitefulness or willful ignorance any more in effectively managing the country. Stop calling everything “political” and recognize the reality of what is being done or un-done (by any “side”) and question it, no matter who is pushing it.]

This morning the news radio show I was listening to was interviewing farmers at an agricultural show in North Dakota who are currently facing a 20% drop in the value of their recent harvests of soybeans, corn and wheat directly due to losing their main buyer, China, due to that nation’s response to the tariffs the new administration is imposing. One farmer, who admitted he had voted for Trump, said he is now facing a loss of nearly $200,000 and debating whether he should put his crop in storage and hope the tariffs “go away”. Like any other policy, the tariffs and trade treaties are not going to magically change unless there is backlash or input from citizens.

I guess I get more exercised about this than a lot of people because I have been an activist most of my life (attended my first anti war and civil rights protests when I was in Junior High more than half a century ago). I volunteer as a poll worker and am dismayed at the number of voters who either show up completely uninformed about what the candidates they are voting for represent or plan to do, as well as those who simply don’t bother to vote who say “politics don’t interest me and what does it matter if I vote anyway?” It freaking DOES matter that you vote and that you make sure that you have a pretty good idea what the people you vote in plan to do that will effect your quality of life and that of everyone else. And it DOES matter that citizens stay informed and reach out to their congressional representatives to express pro or con opinions about legislation and national policies after they are elected.

As was said, if you don’t care for a topic, simply don’t click on that thread. If you do so just so that you can whine that the topic offends you, you’re the one abusing the forums, not the thread originators. I am fine with having articles included on the site that relate to such topics. That doesn’t mean I subscribe to what is presented without looking deeper into the subject from other sources, but with the growing lack of publications that cover wilderness recreation, there are fewer sources for such background information these days and I am glad when I do see pertinent articles, even industry opinion pieces, that alert me to potential issues that affect the sports I love.

@willowleaf said:
We can’t afford either partisan spitefulness or willful ignorance any more in effectively managing the country.

Willful ignorance is certainly part of the problem: failing to gather facts, insisting on ignoring inconvenient facts, molding them to one’s preconceived opinion, pretending that falsehoods are facts, ignoring the expertise of learned people who have no political agenda but only seek to save the planet. Another part is prioritizing only current economic benefits, which go to a tiny percentage of the population, over long-term priorities like the health of the planet and overall well-being of all people. “Me first” and “right now” thinking will turn out to be suicidal in the long run. Willful ignorance is what facilitates that thinking, modeled from the top down by charismatic leaders who convince uninformed voters that they have their interests at heart when in truth nothing matters to these cynical leaders but their own power and wealth. The North Dakota farmers are now learning what happens when people think only in such self-serving terms rather than in terms of how we’re all in this together, across this country and across the world.

For anyone who witnessed the incredible string of liberation movements that swept around the world since the 1960s, the present regression to an earlier, less evolved form of society is disheartening. This is seen in countries like Poland and Hungary that fought hard for democracy and freedom but are now retreating from democracy. The US was founded on this quest for freedom (inspired by the French Revolution), but somehow we willingly handed power to a demagogue and we aren’t demanding accountability from a mute Congress as our elected leaders sit and plan how to protect their own positions rather than stopping the debacle.

All the brouhaha seems like one huge distraction to draw our attention away from the fact that our planet is burning up. Do tariffs on kayaks and canoes even matter if our fate is that 100 years from we’ll be living underground like desert reptiles to escape the heat? If you love paddling then you love the planet and you have a stake in protecting it. How? By leading with facts, through goodwill discussions of issues rather than censoring people who speak up, by voting, and through direct political action, which is our birthright in this country.

P.S. The word “politics” isn’t a dirty word, you know. In its origin it refers to the citizenry.

Good grief!

Getting flags now on this discussion, likely due to its not laying down. It is not the direction but people are really, really indicating they dislike going thru political dialogue on this Board.

@Waterbird, would you like to call this one done here and formulate a proposal for the administrator? I suspect that would resolve the issues.

What ex

@Celia said:
Getting flags now on this discussion, likely due to its not laying down. It is not the direction but people are really, really indicating they dislike going thru political dialogue on this Board.

@Waterbird, would you like to call this one done here and formulate a proposal for the administrator? I suspect that would resolve the issues.

I’m sure this thread will die a natural death when people lose interest in it and have nothing more to add. Thank you for acknowledging that this has been a dialogue. That was my aim. Dialogue is a good thing.

Well, this certainly sparked a lot of interest and debate!

While I know that some people view the article as politically motivated, it is not. The primary purpose of the article was to inform the public of how the tariff changes will affect paddlesports. Some say the new tariffs are good for the US economy in the long term, others say they will create substantial damage to the economy. Regardless of your opinion, however, the tariffs appear to be coming and they will affect paddlesports.

The idea for this post came from a recent conversation I had with John from Sea Eagle while at the industry tradeshow. I was unaware of paddlesports items being added to the tariffs so it simply seemed like good information for all of you to know as well.

Even many goods that are “Made in America” will be affected by the tariffs as many of the parts used in production are made offshore plus there are supply issues for aluminum from other tariffs.

One exercise that my high-school English teacher loved to have his students perform was to first write a persuasive essay on a topic we are very passionate about and then write a second paper passionately defending the opposite position.

So here is my challenge to you:

  1. If you have already posted a comment on this thread, try posting a new thread that supports the completely opposite position.
  2. For any rebuttal you make to another’s post, find two points on which you agree with that person, point those out first and then move on to one area where you don’t agree.

Like @WaterBird said, the point of the topic and the message boards is for dialogue to occur.

Of course, if things don’t settle down, I will just need to close this post but I think we are all better than that.

Thanks, Brian, appreciate your tolerance.

Re-reading the exchanges, it appears the only real “flies in the ointment” were from a few folks who weighed in simply to complain about the topic being discussed at all. I would not click on strings that discuss surf skis or outfitting fishing kayaks (since I have zero interest in either) and then complain that they are tedious to me. So I don’t get why some people feel they have to butt in on subjects that don’t concern them.

Perhaps the forums could use a new category: Environment, Regulation and Legal News for sharing such paddling-related information and discussions. Those who prefer to stay blissfully unaware of potential threats to our recreational options could thus avoid “contamination” of their peace of mind while those of us who stay actively concerned about these issues could keep abreast of them.

Good suggestion, Willowleaf.

Political decisions’ effects are rippling all the way down in many ways. In my home area, it has become more important than ever to vote in the primaries, attend LOCAL candidate forums, and try to stay abreast of impending changes. Some of the local turbulence was obviously “inspired” by the present POTUS’s behavior.

Sticking my head in the sand (water) only allows certain people to get away with things that should be questioned at the very least.

The article may not have been politically motivated, but the topic of tariffs is undeniably political, with divisions along party lines. Again, I don’t object at all to publishing the article and I don’t think we should shy away from using the word “politics,” which is a term that describes a participatory democracy.

Here’s my essay supporting the opposite point of view of mine:


We should really leave politicking to politicians. Nothing we say can influence them anyway. I voted once in a presidential election and it had no impact whatsoever so I’m not getting out of bed for that next time. I’m concerned about unsupported statements about climate change. WHERE IS THE PROOF OF THAT? If you can’t provide the proof, it doesn’t exist. You claim that 97% of scientists state that climate change exists and that it’s caused by human activity. FAKE NEWS, people, FAKE NEWS, just trying to make the president look bad. You ain’t seen heat till you’ve lived in Phoenix, so just toughen up, wussies. You do not need clean water to paddle. Is your kayak that delicate? I’m xx years old. By the time the REAL doodoo hits the fan I’m going to be long gone, so what do I care about the environment? I totally agree with keeping this forum clean of politics, which is TOTALLY unrelated to paddling, so you bleeding-heart liberals and tree huggers can just spare me the political ruminations, stop the delusional rants, and ease on down the road, you bots and shills. Not happy? Complain to Brian. Buy American! Make America Great Again! We’re the only country that really counts. Only traitors buy kayaks made in China. I do not give a rat’s XXX about the Chinese. This is the last comment from me on this subject. P.S. I am well educated so don’t tell me what to think. Good grief!


That was fun. I feel more empathy now for my cohorts on the other side. What’s the next assignment?

That was fun. I feel more empathy now for my cohorts on the other side. What’s the next assignment?

Go Away…