This is all good information. I am definitely going to give the WS Pungo 120 some more time. As mentioned, I think I have decided to take it out the first few times on a stream more suited to a rec boat that can turn on a dime like the Vapor. Yes, the Vapor has a flatter bottom and doesn’t track nearly as well as the Pungo on open stretches. I think using the Vapor for this stream, especially the upper parts, will be my plan from now on. I am sure I will enjoy the Pungo a lot more once I take it on a more suitable river.
The reasons for me looking at a Loon are because of an overall first good impression with another Old Town product as well as the fact this one and the Pungo are rated well with some preferring the Loon. It looks to be more of a “barge” as described which is what the Vapor basically is as well.
I was unaware that the 3 layer construction wasn’t for buoyancy. Yeah, I know having to recover a swamped boat isn’t a lot of fun no matter what and this would be a larger boat than my Vapor 10 so become even more of a lead weight. Has anyone here ever been in a swamping situation on a Loon or not? I am just curious. The models I looked at at least had a rear dry hatch as well. I did just find some reviews that indicate it will stay floating but just below the surface. Many suggested the use of empty soda or other plastic bottles in mesh bags if you don’t like the intrusiveness of float bladders to displace water. I have put scraps of foam board insulation into some cheaper kayaks as well because they come with NOTHING. I figure this is what I will do when the cheesy factory floatation comes out of my Vapor 10.
For the most part I go with a group of people who all have 10-12 ft class kayaks. We transport them in the beds of pickup trucks. I know canoes and longer kayaks can hold more but I don’t want to be the odd man that brings a difficult kayak to transport. This wouldn’t be a problem on my local stream as I have the 10 ft Vapor but could be an issue on the longer trips where other people are involved.
As for the secondary market, I am sure that a Loon would be a lot easier to find than a Vapor 12. I have never seen a Vapor 12 anywhere except on websites while the Vapor 10 appears to be the basic line of Old Town at all the big box sporting goods stores and such so they are EVERYWHERE.
I wouldn’t buy another 10 ft kayak as I have the Vapor 10 as well as a cheapo spare that I might or might not sell. It is always good to have an extra for when that friend without a kayak wants to go at the last minute. I would definitely at least like to try out a Loon 120 or 126 because they look like nice boats. Again, I am not in any huge hurry and figure the Pungo might grow on me after the initial growing pains.
Don’t use foam board in kayaks!! It absorbs water and is therefore not only useless but a hazard. You have to use closed cell dense foam like minicell. It is similar to the stuff used in “pool noodles” and those solid blocks used for yoga supports (you can often find those blocks pretty cheap in the women’s sports and workout wear department of places like TJ Maxx and they can be cut with a sharp steak knife to shape them).
You can cut pool noodles (way cheap) and bundle them together with zip ties or duct tape to create void filler in the hull spaces in rec kayaks. Having just a stern bulkhead is almost as bad as having none as it can result in the difficult (and embarassing) “Cleopatra’s Needle” effect when the bow sinks and the stern floats. As in this linked infamous video (time point 0:45) of a guy who swamps his Pungo.
The foam blocks that come under the decks in open hull rec boat kayaks are mostly to keep the decks from collapsing when they are all stacked in the shipping containers coming from China. Those blocks are really not “flotation”.
some boats you hang on to, some you deal away, I usually want to log somewhere around 50 paddle trips before I write off a boat. I’m not worried about the reputation, stats, or what others think. Is it fun for me? All boats have good and bad points. The boats I’ve dealt away the quickest I had spent quite a bit of time swimming.
@willowleaf said:
Don’t use foam board in kayaks!! It absorbs water and is therefore not only useless but a hazard. You have to use closed cell dense foam like minicell. It is similar to the stuff used in “pool noodles” and those solid blocks used for yoga supports (you can often find those blocks pretty cheap in the women’s sports and workout wear department of places like TJ Maxx and they can be cut with a sharp steak knife to shape them).
You can cut pool noodles (way cheap) and bundle them together with zip ties or duct tape to create void filler in the hull spaces in rec kayaks. Having just a stern bulkhead is almost as bad as having none as it can result in the difficult (and embarassing) “Cleopatra’s Needle” effect when the bow sinks and the stern floats. As in this linked infamous video (time point 0:45) of a guy who swamps his Pungo.
The foam blocks that come under the decks in open hull rec boat kayaks are mostly to keep the decks from collapsing when they are all stacked in the shipping containers coming from China. Those blocks are really not “flotation”.
I’ll admit that I find his reaction more than disturbing than the “needle” itself. If that were a more challenging venue, that guy would be a hazard to himself and his partner with that attitude. If he were a drowning victim, you would have to knock him out first to save him.
Being unprepared and ignorant to dangers can happen to anyone, and one learns from it. Being whiny is usually a deeply inculcated characteristic (flaw) that infuses the default reaction to anything slightly adverse…
Ironically, it was the Perception sales rep who told us that the foam pillars were to support the deck (and not really for “flotation”) back in the late 1970’s when I managed an outfitter who was a Perception dealer! Back then the boats for our stock were often delivered to us individually via UPS.
It’s long been my understanding that is the function of foam blocking in WW kayaks, to protect against the deck crushing or entrapping the paddler’s legs in a pinning situation.
I’ll gladly stand corrected if anybody has facts to offer.
@Steve_in_Idaho said:
I always thought Sarah and friend staged that video.
There’s a follow-up video that addresses that question, at least partially. If I recall, alcohol was a factor - but apparently "“Max” is really like that.
Yes, Max is a self-admitted drama queen. Exaggerating his distress is part of his schtick. I do share the video often because it so nicely illustrates the bow-down posture that stern-bulkhead-only rec boats can adopt as well as how a swamped boat will sink and be difficult to re-enter (without prior practice), even in calm shallow water.
