Station wagon choices

@JackL Curious, as long as you aren’t talking about an automatic rear hatch, why do you find that the spoilers make it impossible to lift the hatch with kayaks on the roof? I have been lifting a rear hatch with some amount of spoiler with kayaks on the roof thru two Taurus/Sable wagons, one Subaru pre 2010 Outback and two Toyota Rav4’s. I have to control it so it rests gently against the hulls rather than banging it up fast, but I have never had any problem doing so. I usually load the way-back first when leaving because it makes it easier to double check that I got everything. But I pretty much always empty out the gear from there first coming home, with the boat still on the roof. I often don’t bother to drop the boat until the next morning, just get the wet gear pulled out to start drying overnight.

I agree that the spoilers are a pain on most models. The one on my Mazda CX5 completely prevents opening the rear hatch more than about 4 inches when boats are on the rack (a Thule attached to the useless lengthwise factory bars.)

While we are bitching, why do the car makers think that lengthwise bars are useful for ANYTHING???

@willowleaf said:
I agree that the spoilers are a pain on most models. The one on my Mazda CX5 completely prevents opening the rear hatch more than about 4 inches when boats are on the rack (a Thule attached to the useless lengthwise factory bars.)

While we are bitching, why do the car makers think that lengthwise bars are useful for ANYTHING???

I like the lengthwise bars on my 1999 Mercedes E320 4Matic wagon. I appreciate being able to easily adjust the spacing between the load bars. It also is something to grab onto when climbing onto the rear tire to reach something or wipe down the boat after loading it on the car.

I don’t like the fact that a boat on top, especially a canoe, greatly reduces how far I can open the hatch - and my car doesn’t even have a rear spoiler.

As far as the lengthwise bars go, I have found that it made it a bit easier to swap a set of rails between cars than with towers mounted into the roof. When we got a newer year Taurus or Sable we had to get new towers. When I went from my Subaru with lengthwise rails to a Toyota with lengthwise rails, the whole thing came right over. No new equipment needed.

You can argue about the sturdiness of these bars and people here will. But in my experience it has made for easier transferability of a rack system to a new car than did towers mounted into the roof.

I am scratching my head about how some of the models mentioned above can have such a dramatically different effect on lift gate clearance with boats on the roof than than the three different (Taurus and Sable were really the same critter) vehicle makes and models I have lived with over about 25 years. Granted at 5’3.5" I don’t have to duck quite as far as taller people would in the face of any limitation. The Ford/Mercuries were lower cars and I my husband had to duck a bit at 6’1". But I never heard any complaints about it, it was enough room to work with…

I did just take a look at pictures of the Mazda CX5. The one thing I see is a far more raked and less vertical fall from the end of the roof to the base of the tail gate than I had on either the pre-2010 Outback or the Rav4’s. I am wondering if the more curved and elongated shape of that lift gate is producing a distinctly different result when it is lifted under boats on the roof than in the cars I have dealt with. My aesthetic has always for a box on wheels, and maybe that is why I have not experienced the troubles above. And that is with the spoilers getting bigger with every car change.

The one complaint I have about the most recent spoiler is that is is on the bleeding edge of my having to get a roller loader for the “guest boat” side with bigger diameter wheels. It is still working with my unit with the original size wheels, but just.

@willowleaf said:
I agree that the spoilers are a pain on most models. The one on my Mazda CX5 completely prevents opening the rear hatch more than about 4 inches when boats are on the rack (a Thule attached to the useless lengthwise factory bars.)

While we are bitching, why do the car makers think that lengthwise bars are useful for ANYTHING???

You put it in a nut shell on the front to back racks.
I would never own a vehicle with them, and all they do is cause a cross rack to be higher

I truly miss the days of boxy vehicles, like my 1988 Dodge minivan and my 1992 Volvo wagon, that had steel roof gutters that I could clip $20 per pair “Quik’n’Easy” brackets onto with home-made pipe or 2 x 4 wood crossbars.

Yeah, the CX5, while fun and economical to drive, has that wind-tunnel “egg” shape which means a VERY short space betwixt the crossbars. I also carry my kayaks downside-up which makes opening the tailgate even more problematic.

I just picked up a hitch-reciever mounted adjustable height vertical “T” bar to see if I can get a little more horizontal support under the boats. Of course, that will make opening the tailgate completely impossible. Raining too hard today to try to mount it. Here’s a pic of the current arrangement:

WL the lift on that would scare me. We try to load boats bow down with the front lower than the rear… I want more pressure on the top of the upside down hull than under the hull… From dragging a trailer we are very conscious of things that can lead to loss of steering control on the open highway ( especially the Great Plains) and not enough weight on the steering axles is one of them

I know that none of us drives a vehicle solely for its boat carrying capabilities… Other factors are more important… And I will continue to by a Forester again ( we have had two in the last 20 years) ; simply because its handling on snow and ice is so predictable and user friendly… ( We just drove to Quebec and back… 600 miles. Entirely in snowstorms that dumped a foot with no services for 150 miles in northern Maine.)

Bear in mind that my boats are very light. The heaviest is that lime green Easky on the passenger side (46 pounds) and the SOF is only 31. The rest of the fleet are folders that are between 20 and 37 pounds and they usually ride in their duffel bags inside the car or on J-racks. In that photo I was loaded to head to kayak camp 500 miles away in northern lower Michigan. And two years ago I hauled that same set up over 3000 miles roundtrip from Pittsburgh to the Saquenay Fiord in Quebec. I strap them on good and solid and check them at every stop.

I will admit that the two Subies I have owned were good in snow. I loved my 2wd 1978 DL wagon – best little car I ever owned and I only gave it up because getting parts for it became too much of a problem. Sold it cheap to a friend’s son who took it out to college in Colorado ski country and got another 25K out of it. But I had such bad experiences with that 2002 Outback I could never consider the brand again. Feel they are overpriced anyway, especially considering how much maintenance they require compared to other Asian compacts.

@kayamedic said:
WL the lift on that would scare me. We try to load boats bow down with the front lower than the rear… I want more pressure on the top of the upside down hull than under the hull… From dragging a trailer we are very conscious of things that can lead to loss of steering control on the open highway ( especially the Great Plains) and not enough weight on the steering axles is one of them

I know that none of us drives a vehicle solely for its boat carrying capabilities… Other factors are more important… And I will continue to by a Forester again ( we have had two in the last 20 years) ; simply because its handling on snow and ice is so predictable and user friendly… ( We just drove to Quebec and back… 600 miles. Entirely in snowstorms that dumped a foot with no services for 150 miles in northern Maine.)

" I know that none of us drives a vehicle solely for its boat carrying capabilities"

Not “none of us” !
I may be alone, but for as long as I can remember I bought my vehicles strictly on their ability to carry our boats and bikes going all the way back to our first boxy 1989 Jeep Cherokee to our present 2014 Subaru Forester

I bought my 99’ Outback based first on roof rack height then room for gear then it drove nice.
If it wasn’t for loading kayaks I would have kept my Explorer… it would have been cheaper to keep running.

WL The boat weight really does not matter. What does matter is the amount of lift that can be generated by the boat. No doubt canoes are bigger sinners than kayaks.Their hulls are shaped like scoops. We have never loaded more than 75 lbs on the rack for long trips. This canoe is 43 lbs. Its the heaviest we have.
My point is I would not think about going across Kansas west without altering the orientation of the boat. I too have toted a boat several thousand miles a year…But when we started going cross country to Utah and Alaska with boat from Maine those treeless plains are a big force.

With this boat in a centered position and bow level we snapped a Yakima tower in Julesburg Colorado… So not wanting to do THAT again we altered the trim to a little bow down and with not as much bow unsupported. We went through the same prairie country with the same 43 lb boat with far better results not only for the wear on the boat but also from gas mileage.

There were tradeoffs. If we do not measure correctly we can punch holes with the stern of the canoe in the trailer window guard.

Michigan and east travel is one thing… West of the Mississippi is another animal entirely

Wow, Kim, THAT’s what I call a really good distance between cross bars. That factor by itself will drastically reduce the stress on the mounts for the rack (and the stress on the boat too). And that unibody vehicle has an advantage over a regular pickup truck too, since unlike a pickup, there’s virtually no twisting or variations roof-line length happening along the length of the vehicle as you drive.

In reading the praise here for older, boxy vehicles for boat-hauling, I think of this one, my overall favorite boat-hauler among the vehicles I’ve owned over the years (though the gas mileage wasn’t so great).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11908573@N00/3149277251/in/album-72157611819384343/

This one was so boxy that the side windows were vertical (no inward lean) with glass that was flat (no curve to the glass at all).

In some ways before those hood loop thingys that made bow and stern tie downs so much easier, we did new car shopping that did take boat transport into consideration. As a matter of fact the FIRST consideration.

We went into some fancy dealership ( I forget whether Mercedes or Volvo) and the first thing we did was get on the ground and look for tow hooks. Not finding any we walked out saying none of their cars would do… Of course they were not in the budget anyway but it was fun.

Well you could get one of these…

After fiddling with that heavy adjustable t-bar I decided it would be a bad idea to use on my car. Thought of returning it to the store but I just helped my brother in upstate NY buy his first pickup truck (an ‘04 Silverado with low miles that will be perfect for his growing remodeling business) and I am going to give the t-bar rack to him instead. The Silverado has the crew cab with the 6.5’ bed so the t-bar (which can be used horizontally or vertically) will be useful for him to haul long lumber for deck building. And if he puts a roof rack on the cab he can haul his 17’ Necky Looksha atop the set up.

Kayakmedic, I appreciate your observations on driving out west. I’ve been considering buying a used Transit van to fit out for western adventures. That would be a more solid platform for hauling long boats, I think.

I was recently introduced to the newest Trak folding kayak model and might consider selling off my folder stable to consolidate funds to invest in one. Quicker set up than any one I own now plus really outstanding performance, comparable to a higher end hardshell sea kayak and in some ways superior (lighter and with ability to change the rocker on the fly.) But a $3000 to $4000 price tag. If I had one of those I would travel with it packed down inside the vehicle at all times anyway.

An equipped camper van is my preferred method of travel in the far flung western reaches…

https://jalopnik.com/you-can-finally-score-an-awesome-deal-on-the-buick-tour-1831012041/amp

For what it’s worth… my Crosstrek (sort of a wagon) went through its first snow trials on Sunday. I was very, very impressed. I never had all wheel drive before. I may never go back.