Contemplating becoming a switch hitter, Euro to greenland paddle

I suggest you evaluate a one piece first. Will be easier and less expensive to find. Determine length, blade width, loom size and style all of which will transfer over to sectional paddle. And you might even decide to ditch the Euro in favor of traditional.

I found a 2 piece on amazon for $160, a CISI carbon 210/220cm 680 gram adjustable length. I question the adjustable ferrule, it is external in nature just like the external ferrule found on some Werner paddles. My main concern with this paddle is the ferrule in the center would interfere with using the GP as they were intended for a wider sweep. My low angle catch and sweep is a pretty prominent tool when I paddle.

Can’t say enough good things about Gearlab GPs but they’re an investment especially if you don’t know your desired length. I use 205cm euros but a 220cm GP, high angle stroke w both. I used the rule of thumb stated above to find my 220cm length preference. An advantage of the adjustable length would be experimenting with your preference, maybe worth the inconvenience of bulk in the center of your loom.

I just looked at that CISI paddle and I wouldn’t even consider it, as the blade design is seriously lacking. First off, the blades are too short. The edges appear to be blunt and the junk wrapped around the root of the blade looks like it would be a problem. This paddle is obviously meant to be paddled by holding the loom, rather than the traditional root-of-the-blade grip used by Greenlanders. I’m also very leery of a carbon fiber paddle for only $160. Judging by the poor overall design, I’d you’re getting what you pay for. This is not really a Greenland paddle.

Additionally, I don’t recommend shoulderless paddles for beginning Greenland paddlers, as the shoulder really help you learn proper canted-paddle technique. Once you have the mechanics of the stroke down, you can use any type of GP.

Another important consideration is that if you buy a carbon fiber paddle, you’re stuck with it as-is. You can’t easily make modifications to suit your personal preference. I suggest that you look for a good wooden paddle designed by someone who is actually a Greenland-style paddler. Get a paddle with pronounced shoulders to start; you can always reshape it once you have enough experience to determine what works best for you. If you have any woodworking skills or interest in woodworking, consider making your own paddles. That way, you can experiment to your heart’s content for far less than the cost of a carbon fiber paddle. Full disclosure, I have a vested interest in promoting the making of wood GPs, so I’ll not elaborate any further on the subject.

Your paddle technique will change considerably with a GP. You plant the paddle farther back (mid-shin vs. near your ankles with a Euro paddle), you apply force gradually throughout the stroke (as opposed to pulling hard as soon as the blade had planted) and the stroke continues well past your hips. You do not use a “control hand” with a GP, so feathering is not necessary. Except in really rough conditions your grip is very relaxed, with the fingers of the lower hand hooking the paddle and pulling, and the base of the fingers on your upper hand pushing on the shoulder of the blade, canting it forward, while the end of the loom is loosely cradled between your thumb and forefinger. This canting is key to getting a powerful stroke, as it promotes water flow over the blade which produces lift. While it’s certainly possible to learn this technique on your own, it’s better to have someone demonstrate it, if possible.

Lastly, go to www.qajaqusa.org and look at the material they have available on Greenland paddles and technique. The site is a treasure trove of knowledge about Greenland paddling. You may also be able to find GP practitioners in your area that can help you and perhaps lend you paddles to try.

BTW, you don’t need a 2-piece GP as a spare. I and most Greenland-style paddlers I know carry what referred to in the US as a “storm paddle” on their foredecks. It’s a GP with a fist-width loom that’s used with a sliding stroke. It’s easy to secure on-deck where it’s always in easy reach and I’ve needed to use mine on a couple of occasions where my primary paddle was torn from my grasp. Storm paddles are also great in close confines, such as when paddling in sea caves.

Besides the finding your optimal loom length and adjusting for more or less purchase with the blade depending on wave and water conditions, an adjustable loom paddle allows reaching around a small rider.

The definition of a switch hitter is one who can use a baseball bat with either a left or right hand swing. Now for a single bladed canoe paddle I would understand, but for a double-bladed kayak paddle I must object on the grounds of metaphorical accuracy. :stuck_out_tongue:

Not that my objection is worth the energy used to transmit it across the continent.

@Sparky961 said:

Not that my objection is worth the energy used to transmit it across the continent.
It passed an ocean too, before it arrived here.

@Allan Olesen said:

@Sparky961 said:

Not that my objection is worth the energy used to transmit it across the continent.
It passed an ocean too, before it arrived here.

Ack… definitely in debt now.

I’ll second the concerns about those cheapo Chinese “carbon fiber” GP’s. I would not waste money on one as materials, design and quality are usually sub-par. There are paddle makers (like this guy on Etsy) who will sell you a nice wooden one for less than the sketchy carbon ones.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/518871454/greenland-kayak-paddle-semi-shouldered?gpla=1&gao=1&utm_campaign=shopping_us_TraditionalMarine_sfc_osa&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_custom1=0&utm_content=14621919&gclid=CjwKCAiA9qHhBRB2EiwA7poaeBu4UoBtrYc-TU3oyZ9zd0ZwzPzAehPnnzcTnUQxUoMyrx0o7qAn4xoCiz4QAvD_BwE

You really don’t need a two piece to carry a GP as a spare if you’ve got a long enough boat. Both my cedar and carbon GP’s are 84" (213 cm) and fit under the deck bungies on my 16’ and 18’ kayaks. My 72" storm paddle fits on the decks of the 13.5’ and 15’ boats and I often carry it as a spare.

Also second the suggestion to get a shouldered wooden one in a longer length – you can pare it down if it feels too long and even carve away the shoulders. I like an unshouldered paddle myself, but that’s just a personal thing and there are advantages of shoulders especially to the novice. There have been a couple of instances when I did wish I had the shoulders, but not enough so to want to own one any more. I did have a shouldered Northern Lights 3 piece carbon paddle but never did warm up to it and sold it to somebody who appreciates it more (so I could afford the Gearlab).

I like my 2-piece Gearlab GP very much and the center connection is virtually undetectible in use. But one reason I like it is that it feels just like my favorite paddle with is a 5-lamination cedar and fir wood one. It is a good point that you should settle on a preferred length and blade shape before investing in a carbon fiber.

@Sparky961 said:
The definition of a switch hitter is one who can use a baseball bat with either a left or right hand swing. Now for a single bladed canoe paddle I would understand, but for a double-bladed kayak paddle I must object on the grounds of metaphorical accuracy. :stuck_out_tongue:

Not that my objection is worth the energy used to transmit it across the continent.

My wife spit out her soda with laughter at that comment.

My current “go to” paddle is a 210cm bent shaft Corryvrecken, after a day sitting at the computer, reading as much information as I could; I still cannot decide. I am leaning toward a shouldered storm one piece cedar.
My most paddled boat is a WS Zephyr 155, followed by a Pyrahna Speeder. Most of my paddling is done on rivers, light WW (probably class 3 and under) followed by light surf and confused or reflected water. I have not broken a paddle for several years, either because I am a better paddler, or I am an old guy now, and keep doing stupid stuff to a minimum. I do not have any shoulder or joint issues.
What would be a collective opinion on a logical progression to a gp,

even at my age {66} I know that the new use of the term {Switch Hitter} has nothing to do with either baseball or with paddling any kind of watercraft. {is this really what you wanted, as a title, to open up a discussion?}

Seriously…after reading your kayak choices and your chosen paddling dynamics, I would say that your choices seem to be in line with the paddle you are presently using. It’s the venue where a Euro blade is meant to be used. Otherwise , if you still insist, you need to try a Greenland paddle, the turbulent waters etc would suggest that you seek a shouldered paddle possibly with a diamond shaped shoulder rather than more rounded . The maneuvers that are necessary in this type of venue, would also suggest a paddle only a few cm {at most} longer than what you already use. The river thing means a little extra width from the normal width for cruising, {your widest hand ability to hold, a bit beyond comfortable} I would also probably opt for having parallel sides for 6 to 10 inches to the tip. {more purchase for the river work in shallow water} No taper in the tip area. Because this isn’t for easy cruising and you are not changing venues too, I would suggest making the loom the same length as you are presently using measured the way a GP loom is measured , with only the thumb and the index fingers on the loom and the other fingers wrapped on the shoulder/blade root.

Best Wishes
Roy

PS lenticular shaped blade section and very sharp edges extending around the tip. oval loom. And if you can get Sitka spruce, it weighs a little more than red cedar, but for you purpose , it would be better.

@roym said:
even at my age {66} I know that the new use of the term {Switch Hitter} has nothing to do with either baseball or with paddling any kind of watercraft. {is this really what you wanted, as a title, to open up a discussion?}

Ohhhh… kay. I guess I was too limited in my previous search for definitions. Urban Dictionary to the rescue.

@Sparky961 said:

@roym said:
even at my age {66} I know that the new use of the term {Switch Hitter} has nothing to do with either baseball or with paddling any kind of watercraft. {is this really what you wanted, as a title, to open up a discussion?}

Ohhhh… kay. I guess I was too limited in my previous search for definitions. Urban Dictionary to the rescue.

My son is a great switch hitter. He is top ranked MMA fighter in New England who can fight out of orthodox or southpaw stances, depending on which will confuse his opponent more.

To me “switch hitting” means being able to alternate techniques and stances adroitly. I don’t read more into it than that, unless someone is explicitly indicating otherwise.

sing

@trvlrerik said:
My current “go to” paddle is a 210cm bent shaft Corryvrecken, after a day sitting at the computer, reading as much information as I could; I still cannot decide. I am leaning toward a shouldered storm one piece cedar.
My most paddled boat is a WS Zephyr 155, followed by a Pyrahna Speeder. Most of my paddling is done on rivers, light WW (probably class 3 and under) followed by light surf and confused or reflected water. I have not broken a paddle for several years, either because I am a better paddler, or I am an old guy now, and keep doing stupid stuff to a minimum. I do not have any shoulder or joint issues.
What would be a collective opinion on a logical progression to a gp,

While I know several paddlers who use a Euro and carry a storm paddle as a spare, I wouldn’t recommend going immediately to a storm paddle because the sliding stroke required is a fairly advanced technique. You would be better off to year to use a full-size GP first, then add a storm once you’ve mastered GP technique.

That said, I’ll also caution you that GPs are not great in shallow water, since it can be difficult to get the blades fully submerged. This is more critical than with a Euro, since the blade area of a GP is distributed along a much greater length. GPs are really designed as open water paddles and If I was paddling primarily in shallow rivers, I would either modify the design significantly (wider blades) or use a Euro paddle.

Regarding the Etsy link that Willowleaf posted, while I can’t endorse these paddles without having seen one, the specs on his shouldered paddle (86" with a 22" loom) are right in the ballpark for the average American male. I can’t tell much about the blade or loom cross-sections from the pictures on Etsy or his website, but the paddle should at least be a good starting point.

Re: that Etsy paddle, I gave it a shot, semi-shouldered. The workmanship was excellent but the loom’s join to the shoulders was strangely uncomfortable. If you’re looking down the blade it’s more of a + shape because the loom is so oval. I used it for half a season, figured out my desired length, and switched to a more streamlined (and expensive) design.

Do most GP looms have an oval or rounded shaft ? In my consideration of different paddles I realised how heavily I rely on my bent shaft paddles for indexing, and that for the last several years I have been feathering my paddles.
How difficult has it been for others unlearning muscle memory?

What I thought was a simple solution for spare paddle storage; has become not such a simple process.

For a carved paddle, oval seems to be standard. When using a shouldered paddle with the loom sized to you, you will have you hands at the end of the look & around the base of the blade. This gives a natural index. Personally, I found the unfeathered GP a natural fit and better for me than a feathered Euro.

<<What I thought was a simple solution for spare paddle storage; has become not such a simple process.>> We may be helping you overthink this, especially if it is for a spare.

I have purchased three Werner Arctic Wind paddles since 1989, all were 8 ft (244 cm) long or longer and requiring me to cut them down to 230 cm - but I kept them feathered since all my other paddles were feathered. The last one I purchased was graphite - very light. Used them as my touring paddle in my Nordkapp until a couple years ago when I replaced it with a non-feathered GearLab Akiak. I still use both and don’t have any problems switching back and forth from unfeathered to feathered. Werner stopped making the Arctic Wind long ago but I found it to be a nice feathered paddle.

@trvlrerik said:
Do most GP looms have an oval or rounded shaft ? In my consideration of different paddles I realised how heavily I rely on my bent shaft paddles for indexing, and that for the last several years I have been feathering my paddles.
How difficult has it been for others unlearning muscle memory?

I switch without much thought between:

  • Unfeathered Greenland paddle (Lars Gram carbon)
  • Feathered, bent shaft euro paddle (Werner Ikelos carbon)
  • Unfeathered, bent shaft euro paddle (the same Ikelos)

The first few strokes after adding or removing feather to the euro paddle will feel strange, but after that, it feels natural.

I do not feel the bent shaft or feathering to be missing when I switch to the GP - in this case, the necessary switch in technique takes more attention than the switch between paddle shafts.

I also sometimes use a straight shaft euro paddle. That is to me a larger difference than the difference between the above mentioned paddles. I can’t really get used to that, even though it is a really nice paddle.