Contemplating becoming a switch hitter, Euro to greenland paddle

even at my age {66} I know that the new use of the term {Switch Hitter} has nothing to do with either baseball or with paddling any kind of watercraft. {is this really what you wanted, as a title, to open up a discussion?}

Seriously…after reading your kayak choices and your chosen paddling dynamics, I would say that your choices seem to be in line with the paddle you are presently using. It’s the venue where a Euro blade is meant to be used. Otherwise , if you still insist, you need to try a Greenland paddle, the turbulent waters etc would suggest that you seek a shouldered paddle possibly with a diamond shaped shoulder rather than more rounded . The maneuvers that are necessary in this type of venue, would also suggest a paddle only a few cm {at most} longer than what you already use. The river thing means a little extra width from the normal width for cruising, {your widest hand ability to hold, a bit beyond comfortable} I would also probably opt for having parallel sides for 6 to 10 inches to the tip. {more purchase for the river work in shallow water} No taper in the tip area. Because this isn’t for easy cruising and you are not changing venues too, I would suggest making the loom the same length as you are presently using measured the way a GP loom is measured , with only the thumb and the index fingers on the loom and the other fingers wrapped on the shoulder/blade root.

Best Wishes
Roy

PS lenticular shaped blade section and very sharp edges extending around the tip. oval loom. And if you can get Sitka spruce, it weighs a little more than red cedar, but for you purpose , it would be better.

@roym said:
even at my age {66} I know that the new use of the term {Switch Hitter} has nothing to do with either baseball or with paddling any kind of watercraft. {is this really what you wanted, as a title, to open up a discussion?}

Ohhhh… kay. I guess I was too limited in my previous search for definitions. Urban Dictionary to the rescue.

@Sparky961 said:

@roym said:
even at my age {66} I know that the new use of the term {Switch Hitter} has nothing to do with either baseball or with paddling any kind of watercraft. {is this really what you wanted, as a title, to open up a discussion?}

Ohhhh… kay. I guess I was too limited in my previous search for definitions. Urban Dictionary to the rescue.

My son is a great switch hitter. He is top ranked MMA fighter in New England who can fight out of orthodox or southpaw stances, depending on which will confuse his opponent more.

To me “switch hitting” means being able to alternate techniques and stances adroitly. I don’t read more into it than that, unless someone is explicitly indicating otherwise.

sing

@trvlrerik said:
My current “go to” paddle is a 210cm bent shaft Corryvrecken, after a day sitting at the computer, reading as much information as I could; I still cannot decide. I am leaning toward a shouldered storm one piece cedar.
My most paddled boat is a WS Zephyr 155, followed by a Pyrahna Speeder. Most of my paddling is done on rivers, light WW (probably class 3 and under) followed by light surf and confused or reflected water. I have not broken a paddle for several years, either because I am a better paddler, or I am an old guy now, and keep doing stupid stuff to a minimum. I do not have any shoulder or joint issues.
What would be a collective opinion on a logical progression to a gp,

While I know several paddlers who use a Euro and carry a storm paddle as a spare, I wouldn’t recommend going immediately to a storm paddle because the sliding stroke required is a fairly advanced technique. You would be better off to year to use a full-size GP first, then add a storm once you’ve mastered GP technique.

That said, I’ll also caution you that GPs are not great in shallow water, since it can be difficult to get the blades fully submerged. This is more critical than with a Euro, since the blade area of a GP is distributed along a much greater length. GPs are really designed as open water paddles and If I was paddling primarily in shallow rivers, I would either modify the design significantly (wider blades) or use a Euro paddle.

Regarding the Etsy link that Willowleaf posted, while I can’t endorse these paddles without having seen one, the specs on his shouldered paddle (86" with a 22" loom) are right in the ballpark for the average American male. I can’t tell much about the blade or loom cross-sections from the pictures on Etsy or his website, but the paddle should at least be a good starting point.

Re: that Etsy paddle, I gave it a shot, semi-shouldered. The workmanship was excellent but the loom’s join to the shoulders was strangely uncomfortable. If you’re looking down the blade it’s more of a + shape because the loom is so oval. I used it for half a season, figured out my desired length, and switched to a more streamlined (and expensive) design.

Do most GP looms have an oval or rounded shaft ? In my consideration of different paddles I realised how heavily I rely on my bent shaft paddles for indexing, and that for the last several years I have been feathering my paddles.
How difficult has it been for others unlearning muscle memory?

What I thought was a simple solution for spare paddle storage; has become not such a simple process.

For a carved paddle, oval seems to be standard. When using a shouldered paddle with the loom sized to you, you will have you hands at the end of the look & around the base of the blade. This gives a natural index. Personally, I found the unfeathered GP a natural fit and better for me than a feathered Euro.

<<What I thought was a simple solution for spare paddle storage; has become not such a simple process.>> We may be helping you overthink this, especially if it is for a spare.

I have purchased three Werner Arctic Wind paddles since 1989, all were 8 ft (244 cm) long or longer and requiring me to cut them down to 230 cm - but I kept them feathered since all my other paddles were feathered. The last one I purchased was graphite - very light. Used them as my touring paddle in my Nordkapp until a couple years ago when I replaced it with a non-feathered GearLab Akiak. I still use both and don’t have any problems switching back and forth from unfeathered to feathered. Werner stopped making the Arctic Wind long ago but I found it to be a nice feathered paddle.

@trvlrerik said:
Do most GP looms have an oval or rounded shaft ? In my consideration of different paddles I realised how heavily I rely on my bent shaft paddles for indexing, and that for the last several years I have been feathering my paddles.
How difficult has it been for others unlearning muscle memory?

I switch without much thought between:

  • Unfeathered Greenland paddle (Lars Gram carbon)
  • Feathered, bent shaft euro paddle (Werner Ikelos carbon)
  • Unfeathered, bent shaft euro paddle (the same Ikelos)

The first few strokes after adding or removing feather to the euro paddle will feel strange, but after that, it feels natural.

I do not feel the bent shaft or feathering to be missing when I switch to the GP - in this case, the necessary switch in technique takes more attention than the switch between paddle shafts.

I also sometimes use a straight shaft euro paddle. That is to me a larger difference than the difference between the above mentioned paddles. I can’t really get used to that, even though it is a really nice paddle.

I sold my bent shaft Euro and like a straight shaft.
Whatever paddles your boat.

Side bar here on GP’s: paddling instructor Paulo Oullet has good videos on form. This one is just a preview of one of his courses for sale, but I’m posting the link because it has some nice clear clips of paddling techniques with a GP (he’s using a carbon Gearlab Akiak like mine.)

https://www.dancingwiththesea.com/fitness-paddling-s3/

@trvlrerik said:
Do most GP looms have an oval or rounded shaft ? In my consideration of different paddles I realised how heavily I rely on my bent shaft paddles for indexing, and that for the last several years I have been feathering my paddles.

For me… it’s not the loom of the GP that does the indexing. It’s the shoulder.

if you do any one handed rolls {Angel roll} or one handed sculling, then your hand is in the center of the loom and the indexing is done with the loom. If you never do these maneuvers or never wish to , then the indexing is either done using the shoulder or the blade.

Having a round loom would limit the paddle’s use and rule out some maneuvers.or make them more difficult. {the maneuvers can still be done, but it adds a challenge that isn’t necessary.}

If a person ever does harpoon practice, the paddle is used as a balance and held in front by the center of the loom. Any capsize in this position is followed by an Angel roll. Also when doing a Balance Brace, and to be able to index and skull if necessary with one hand. When doing a bow rudder, dropping the non working blade into the armpit on the working blade side. It’s a nicety to also have a loom that allows indexing and control. I would never consider a Greenland paddle with a round loom for my use and would never recommend one for others either.

I also prefer a little more rectangular shape for the loom instead of oval because of the added control for maneuvers such as I stated. Especially since you only hold the loom for these more technical maneuvers

The shoulder is also a place I shape depending on the intended use for a particular paddle… For extreme technical use I like a diamond shape for the shoulder, but find that for distance the diamond shape can create hot spots, so on a distance paddle much prefer a more rounded shoulder where the palm of the hand rests with the last two fingers in contact with an edge for indexing. .{YMMV}

@roym
Good to know. You inspired me to go look closely at my GPs. One has a round loom and all the rest are more rectangular; indexed.

There are a lot of great reasons for using a GP. Fitting better as a spare on the deck is not one of them. I think you should explore the other benefits and you will find that having a two piece paddle is not a high priority. There is a learning curve with a GP, you will not be happy using one with your current stroke believe me. It could take a whole season to learn to effectively use a GP. One of the great advantages of a wood GP is that it is made to fit YOU and can be easily modified and it’s flex and buoyancy. You won’t get that same feel with a two piece GP. So if you just want a compact deck paddle the Greenland may not be for you.

Btw. The Greenland Paddle blade is usually shaped as a narrow flattened dihedron tapering to an oval wing at the tips. This shape has almost no aerodynamic drag and therefore we do not index the blades. Proper paddling technique with a GP is with a straight wrist which is another advantage reducing carpal tunnel injuries and wrist pain.

I have often noticed that many of the paddles I have looked at have replaceable tips. I have never seriously damaged a paddle on its tips. If I know I am going to be in a “high contact” area with rocks or WW I do not think I would be using a GP, and pull out one of my war paddles (Werner Tybee poly blades)
The tips on some of the GP paddles vary from oval to nearly squared off; does the shape of the tip make a huge difference in lift in rolling or a wide sweep? or is it a preference thing when handling the end of the paddle?